Sharpen antique cleavers? Bwahahahaha

[Octaveman]

I'm laughing now but wasn't laughing at the time. My mom moved recently to a 98 acre property that was full of old "stuff". Some of the stuff they found were these two cleavers. The handles are split and falling apart (but holding together) and were duller than butter knives. The small one is a 6" no name and the big one is 10 inches weighing in at almost 5 pounds. I offered to clean them up and sharpen them also offering to sharpen her POS Henckels Santoku.

Both cleavers were convex ground adding to the difficulty level and I quickly found I had to start with my DMT XXC to do get anywhere with them. The small cleaver took a lot of grinding to clean up because of the hammer marks near the edge and I wanted to smooth them out. Spent about 30 minutes on the XXC until i started to get a burr. Then I moved to the Omura 150 to remove burr and refine finish followed by the Bester 500 to further refine and put a secondary bevel on it (or primary bevel depending on who's opinion you follow). Then ended on the Shapton Pro 1k for final burr removal and clean up. Made shreds out of paper.

The beast cleaver basically followed the same progression but the whole process was difficult due to its weight. I'm used to sharpening knives a half pound or less and this was a challenge. Very difficult to hold steady moving back and forth on the stone. I never wanted a table top belt sander more than I did last night. Overall it wasn't as hard to get to the edge with this knife and even with my inability to keep the knife steady I created a decent edge for it.

The smaller cleaver was hand forged and had a higher HRc than the larger one. It had that hand-made look to it whereas the large cleaver had the factory made look to it despite the evidence of forging still on it.

Anyway, it was a learning experience (click on picture to view larger)


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[former_butcher]

That big one looks like an old beef splitter, or hog splitter. I can't imagine sharpening either one by hand. They must have done some "on the farm butchering" at that location at one time.

[black.echo]

Nice work, though as you said, it does sound like a job for Mr. Kala Mazoo.

[mad_dog]

those are a nice find

I've had about the same expierience with this one
it was total rust and the edge looked serrated from the chips
it was a bear
but I didn't put a thin edge on it
it will cut thick paper but by no means shave hair
and I left the abuse on the spine
cause it might get more...:)
http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww140/jefffann/knifefurom007.jpg

this one was easy and is a razor.problely not wise for a meat cleaver.....japanese molybdenum Carvell Hall..cheap....
http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww140/jefffann/knifeforums-4.jpg

[blwchef]

very cool Bob. I've always wanted a big ol' cleaver like that.

[jmbullman]

That looks like my kitchen counter shaptons and some form of naniwa minus the cleavers. Even the spray bottle matches. Except no one is bitching in your ear about the mess. Peace I hope they work out well octiveman.

[VHo]

wow, bravo bob. my hands and arms are so continually worn out from work i have no desire for such projects.

looks like you could take down a medium size tree with that thing.

[thombrogan]

Looks like it has a hare-popping edge. :p

Excellent work Bob!

You, too, mad_dog! Looks like you recontoured the handle there, too. Does it feel more secure that way?

[Octaveman]

Thanks guys. My forearms are still sore. The small one took a very nice edge that easily sliced catalog paper. The hardness surprised me since I had this mental picture of cleavers being soft and easily sharpened. If I had to guess I'd say in the HRc59-60 range and was most definitely harder than the Henckels which took me about 10 minutes to go from butter knife to a carrots worst nightmare. Definitely hand made. There is no makers mark on it anywhere though that I recall seeing. The beast is about 7mm thick and has very little taper down to the edge. I didn't spend a huge amount of time on this one because a) I was getting tired and b) I wasn't sure what my mom's husband was going to do with it. I'd be kind of pissed if I spent over an hour on it giving it a really nice edge only to find out he used it to chop fire wood (which it's fully capable of doing let me tell you). I'll try to remember to take a few more pictures of them tonight.

[mad_dog]

Thanks guys. My forearms are still sore. The small one took a very nice edge that easily sliced catalog paper. The hardness surprised me since I had this mental picture of cleavers being soft and easily sharpened. If I had to guess I'd say in the HRc59-60 range and was most definitely harder than the Henckels which took me about 10 minutes to go from butter knife to a carrots worst nightmare. Definitely hand made. There is no makers mark on it anywhere though that I recall seeing. The beast is about 7mm thick and has very little taper down to the edge. I didn't spend a huge amount of time on this one because a) I was getting tired and b) I wasn't sure what my mom's husband was going to do with it. I'd be kind of pissed if I spent over an hour on it giving it a really nice edge only to find out he used it to chop fire wood (which it's fully capable of doing let me tell you). I'll try to remember to take a few more pictures of them tonight.

that would be a disappointment if you spent that kind of time
it sure looks like a pretty hefty instrument
it sould be pretty handy even if he chops wood with it.:)
but a thin edge isn't what you want on a ax like that
bones beware.....

[Octaveman]

Been doing some research on the beast. It's an L. F. & C. (Landers, Frary & Clark) of New Britain CT. The picture shows the makers mark. The logo says Samual Lee at the top. The number 10 references the blade size as the number 9 is for an 8" cleaver. L. F. & C. made a lot of knives for the military in WWI and WWII.


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[rhinoknives1]

Yes! I've come across many L.F. & C. items and they all seem to have been well made! Not the Best available, But good serviceable Culinary hardware.

I even had a 5 Gallon aluminum army cooking pot WWII era marked U.S. ,
It made a great punch bowl for parties that we made 190 proof ethanol Lab Alcohol Punch with.:p

Great Stuff!

Laurence
www.westsidesharpening.com/

[antonio_luiz]

Been there, done that. Bought a variable speed RadiusMaster :cool:

[ksskss]

I've been spending a lot of time lately in the lower grits.Stonewise I repaired a thoroughly chipped out Tojiro 240 mm Western deba with a Nubatama 60 grit stone. Coarser tha the DMT XXC or the Atoma 140, leaving a coarse scratch pattern but it does get it done FAST for a stone.

On the belt grinder I used a 50 grit Structured ceramic abrasive belt (U936). Super nice My coarsest belt is a 24 grit Blaze belt, but I like the way this 50 grit belt worked. Fast, coarse and leaves a decent finish. I used it on a butterknife dull Portugese cleaver. Took about 5 minutes to get a burr :)

---
Ken

[LennyD]

Got to love the old cleavers!

Been looking to find one at a garage sale or flea market for a while with no success, but hope to soon.

Also ever think of getting your mom a decent santoku? I think it would earn you some good brownie points over the one she is using now :D

[jmbullman]

I am having a bitch of a time with a cck 1303 believe it Or nOt, the edge on mine wore completely down so I went to sharpen it as usual and for some reason (I can't find my micrometer) the darn thing is thicker in the middle so I ground it down again and same problem sharP on the ends and fat in the middle. I have sharpened carbons with not a bit of problems and some of the hardest stainless out their without and issue this one thing is killing me it is literally thicker in the middle of the knife. I since have put it in the drawer until I can calm down and not throw it across the yard. I will try and thin the middle of the knife (I have never had this problem before) later but alas I have more Pressing matters at hand and a fanatic I can shave with. At least that one has no thick spots. Peace tO everybody, jmbullman

[UA8]

I wonder if that's what's wrong with my second cck 1303. My other one sharpened up quite nicely but the second one seems to always fight me. I'll get almost the whole edge sharp and then have just one are that refuses to raise a burr. I'll have to get out my calipers and see what's what.

[LennyD]

I wonder if that's what's wrong with my second cck 1303. My other one sharpened up quite nicely but the second one seems to always fight me. I'll get almost the whole edge sharp and then have just one are that refuses to raise a burr. I'll have to get out my calipers and see what's what.

I had never thought I would have made such good use of my dial caliper and magnifying stuff in sharpening a knife.

It almost seems nuts, but being able to see the results, and use measurements of the blade has been seriously helpful.

And to think all I ever did with the softer western knives (and most of the non kitchen knives I have had) was sharpen them, and go use them etc.

[jmbullman]

I have always had trouble with this thing almost from the get go, I guess it's time to borrow some calipers and break out the dmt or the harbor freight sander. It's really getting aggravating. Peace, jmbullman

[antonio_luiz]

Not unusual to have a blade that's thicker in the middle. Improves the weight-down balance (many fullers are at the top of a blade for the same reason) and to a limited extent can improve "food release".

Many axes have an "hourglass" profile for the same reasons - thicker just above the cutting edge with a thinner body before the haft

BTW - you know that if you take too much off a 1303 you will end up with a nakiri - that's what happened to my mum's over 30++ years

[jmbullman]

It might be one before it's all over with. Jmbullman