Gesshin 8K

[boar_d_laze]

Bought one yesterday from Jon at his shop. Had a great time, and some very nice tea and rugelach as well.

I went there with the idea of buying an 8K to replace my worn out SS, but Jon had me try quite a few of the other Gesshins as well. They were all quite good, and even though they're expensive I'd have to say that they're also tremendous value in the sense of being a LOT OF BANG for a lot of bucks. Actually, that's probably a good way to describe Jon's sense of values regarding his knife stock as well.

Anyway, I thought the 5K and 6K were quite interesting. Although at very similar screen size, the 6K is a lot more aggressive than the 5K; and the 5K, in terms of polish is more like a finishing stone than an medium/fine -- and nothing at all like a Suehiro Rika. Three minutes on the Gesshin 5K followed by three more on the 6K, will go a long way towards dispelling the "grits is grits" theory.

But my three minutes on each stone weren't enough for me to discuss them in public. Let me get that foot out of that mouth.

So... I got the 8K home, prepped it, and sharpened my Konosuke HD gyuto and suji -- neither of which needed it. Or so I thought.

Very nice.

About 30 minutes to soak. Or 5-10 minutes and lots of water during sharpening will also do (that's how I tried it at Jon's).

Overall, the edge and polish are very similar to following a really good 8K (like the Naniwa
Pure White), with a Kitayama. Super sharp, super slippery, but not terribly shiny. Considering the amount of work it did, the stone worked very fast.

Coming off a 3K Chosera, it's as fast or faster than any true polishing stone I've ever used.

I polished one of the knives out on a strop loaded with 0.25u diamond, and didn't make any improvement in perceived sharpness, but only added a little shine and some tooth. Stropping after the 8K Gesshin was a waste of time, pretty much.

I think you have to look at the combination of speed and finish when you weigh the very high price -- which is very much the same as Pure White/Kitayama combination. The stone is neither hard nor soft. Although a little harder than the Pure White, feedback is similar -- good but not remarkable. Unlike the SS it's replacing, the stone has no tendency to gouge. It's not something you even have to think about; a damn good thing.

Better than a Chosera 10K? I think so, but have some preconceptions about how an edge should look and the Chosera goes a bit too shiny for my prejudices.

Better than a generic magnesia 10K which goes for half the price of the Chosera, and considerably less than the Gesshin, and does about the same thing as a Chosera 10K? Since it's really a values question about price/performance that's a much tougher call.

Up until now the Pure White/Kitayama combination was my favorite synthetic stone finish. The Gesshin will get you to the same slippery/sharp and similar but not quite as frosty place as the tandem, but with less time and effort than you'd spend on either stone.

If you're considering my evaluation in terms of adding the stone to your own kit, I think you should consider that the Gesshin 8K's edge hits the 10 ring of my prejudices -- but you may want something shinier or, in any case, different.

Is it the best 8K - 10K I've ever used? On short acquaintance, yes. Yes it is.

BDL

[Keith]

I like the Kitayama alot its one of my favorite finishing stones,I am not sure of it's grit#,but to me a great stone.If you have used the Kita often & like the Gesshin better well that must be a good one as well.

[boar_d_laze]

Kitayamas are sui generis. I used one for a long time, and liked it best as a companion to another very fine polishing stone -- rather than as a natural stop up from a medium sharpening stone. In my opinion it was too slow to be really much good as a follow up to a Norton 4K, and not great following a Shapton Pro 5K; but really shone following a Naniwa Pure White or SS 10K (never got to try one after an SS 8K).

Until yesterday, the Pure White/Kitayama combination created one of my favorite edges. That the Gesshin 8K does what's functionally the same thing faster than I could make either stone work -- let alone both -- and with a more pleasant feel at that, is pure gold. My kind of stone.

Less than 5 minutes off the 3K for polishing, including deburring; and I'm hardly the world's most efficient sharpener.

BDL

[black.echo]

Nice review.

You described the Gesshin's feel as "good, not remarkable" and "pleasant." Could you name a stone or two whose feel/feedback you consider remarkable?

[boar_d_laze]

Suehiro Rika is a great feeling stone. Norton 1K and 4K stones are very good. A couple of the Ice Bears. Choseras 1K and up. The Pure White is very nice.

By comparison the Naniwa 5K Pro -- widely regarded as bizarre to the point of being nearly unusable -- feels like granite on jello; it's almost embarrassing to say so but I kinda like it. My Arkansas and India oil stones are so hard, their only tactile feedback is drag; and I like them too.

BDL

[Wagstaff]

....
Anyway, I thought the 5K and 6K were quite interesting. Although at very similar screen size, the 6K is a lot more aggressive than the 5K; and the 5K, in terms of polish is more like a finishing stone than an medium/fine -- and nothing at all like a Suehiro Rika. Three minutes on the Gesshin 5K followed by three more on the 6K, will go a long way towards dispelling the "grits is grits" theory. / But my three minutes on each stone weren't enough for me to discuss them in public. Let me get that foot out of that mouth.
....
BDL

So now I'm curious about whether I'm confused, or you are... and if it's you, what you really mean. To wit:
I'm pretty sure there's no 6K Gesshin stone.
The 4K is a soaker, the 5K a splash and go. So when you say 5K do you mean 4? and 6K do you mean 5? or when you say 5K do you mean 5K, and 6K is something else?

All that said, I love hearing the general impressions from someone who has experience across a wide variety of stones. I'm pretty crazy about the Gesshins that I've tried, but I don't have a backlog of experience against other stones, and Jon talked me out of buying to Gesshin 2K, given the cheaper combo stone I had already.

I want the 8K, and your experience confirms that. But my skill is, at the moment, not really up to it, by my own assessment. The 5K is my "finisher" for now. Much loved it is, and I'm still growing into it.

[Wagstaff]

My bad, then! Is that new, Jon? It's been a while, but I don't think you had that when I was last there. And I don't think it's on your website. Me, wrong? Is it in the splash and go line or the soaker?

I should have simply asked: "is there a 6K Gesshin now??"

[JBroida]

i'll shoot you an e- mail when i get to work tomorrow

[Wagstaff]

That'd be great. I keep saying I'll come in "this weekend". And I keep being wrong. Life is crazed, and not in a good way... but I still hope to stop in soon. This weekend, maybe !

[boar_d_laze]

The 6K is a fast cutter which leaves a not too polished edge with a little tooth. After looking at it and thumb dragging it, my inclination was to polish it with something finer. The 5K was slower, left a smoother (to a thumb drag anyway), a visibly shinier edge, and in all ways except its larger grit size was more of a finishing stone than the 6K. These impressions don't represent any particular sensitivity on my part. For one thing they were in line with what Jon told me as I was trying them out; and for another, there's nothing subtle about it.

My thought was that the 5K would be an excellent finishing stone for my carbon Sabs. But as I already have three stones which perform the function perfectly well it would be wasteful to buy another.

BDL

[jmbullman]

I haven tried the the gesshins yet mainly because of price, nothing personal bit I will bronzing end up trying the numabatima first for obsious reasons, bit my naniwa ss seemed to do fine actually more than fine when I used it on my kasauma 300 or was it 270 sujihiki that John sold me before I move onto a 8k gs then finished with a 16k gs and the stropped with plain leather. It pushed cut paper like it was butter and made micro thins slices of a rare roast beef tonite. I may get to try the gesshins one day hopefully and I feel sure they will live uo to the potential bdl says. Like unsaid maybe one day. Peace to Jon and bdl I wish y'all well. Jmbullman

[Wagstaff]

The 6K is a fast cutter which leaves a not too polished edge with a little tooth. After looking at it and thumb dragging it, my inclination was to polish it with something finer. The 5K was slower, left a smoother (to a thumb drag anyway), a visibly shinier edge, and in all ways except its larger grit size was more of a finishing stone than the 6K. These impressions don't represent any particular sensitivity on my part. For one thing they were in line with what Jon told me as I was trying them out; and for another, there's nothing subtle about it.

My thought was that the 5K would be an excellent finishing stone for my carbon Sabs. But as I already have three stones which perform the function perfectly well it would be wasteful to buy another.

BDL

Thanks, BDL--I clearly see why Jon might pull out the 6K to compare (i.e., I'd imagine in the name of science!) And your impression of the 5K makes all kinds of sense to me -- it, along with my primitive sharpening skills, are why I don't have the 8K yet. I want to ask, re: the Sabs, the 5K occurs to you as finishing for them, presumably, because they won't hold an 8K level of polish anyway? Or... am I reading too much into it?

[kcma]

I love the 2k-4k-8k stones. Now... this is entirely Jon's fault, so shame.on him. But his stones each all had such good range, that some of these stones simply over laps.

I like the 4k ALOT, but how do I squeeze that in between 2 and 8k? Right....

[boar_d_laze]

Wag -- you're absolutely right. There might or might not be a limit to how much polish you can put a carbon Sab, but there's definitely a useful limit. My 8K and stropped edges were all well and good, but couldn't survive steeling at all -- and if you use a Sab, you steel.

KC -- it's great you want to buy every stone Jon sells. Jon and Sara think so too. When has "need" ever come into it with you anyway?

BDL

[Keith]

How do these stones compare to the chosera's.I have the 1000 & a 10K I bought fr. KCMA a few yrs. ago.Both stones are good,the 10K esp. it has developed fine facture pattern I do not know why,I usually air dry my stones.Does not affect the sharpening at all.

I like stones that have a little grab.That's the only way I know how to say it.My Bester 1200,suhiro rika 5k,& Kitayama have the feel that I like.The chosera 10K is a wonderful finishing stone as well.

How do these stones compare size wise & wear(dishing)to the chosera's.I have 3 good polishing stones in the rika,kita & chosera.I do not need any more.

One can never have too many med. stones though.How does the splash & go compare to the little more expensive one?

[Carvingtool]

I love the 2k-4k-8k stones. Now... this is entirely Jon's fault, so shame.on him. But his stones each all had such good range, that some of these stones simply over laps.

I like the 4k ALOT, but how do I squeeze that in between 2 and 8k? Right....

KC - what's your thought on jumping f/ 2k to 8k? Jon has told me it's not ideal.

[jmbullman]

We made a rule sometime back that all vendors showing or reviewing their wears will have to be talked about in the trading post this is a warning and I will be closing this thread and if the vendor or people want to review the stones in trading post that is fine the same thing happened to ken schwartz and me for that matter reviewing the artiflex this is just a warning which is more than ken got. If you want to review or show or talk about this piticular brand of stone feel free in the trading post. Jmbullman moderator

[jmbullman]

Maybe I took the rules too tight and I appologise, but it was close and the warning was given, my apologizes, but in the pm I recived cussing me only lowers u down to the intelectic of a school child and u know who you were, peace to everybody no hard feelings but that warning could turn into a ban. Jmbullman

[boar_d_laze]

I do know who I am, but many don't. Thank you for reopening the thread.

BDL

[Keith]

I am deff. influenced by recoms. on this site.I have not bought a stone in a while except a 700 bester some time ago.I have picked up several knives in the last year.

Based on several respected sharpeners high on the gesshens,I ordered the 2000,looking forward to using it.

[Pensacola Tiger]

Keith,

You will not be disappointed.

Rick


I am deff. influenced by recoms. on this site.I have not bought a stone in a while except a 700 bester some time ago.I have picked up several knives in the last year.

Based on several respected sharpeners high on the gesshens,I ordered the 2000,looking forward to using it.

[arkansas]

Can anybody enlighten my mind? I am from Austria and read this thread with very high interest, altough being far away from you I am very sure about the high professional sharpening standard of some of the people posting here, boar_d_laze, thanks for opening this thread, kcma and some more. This means a neverending source of knowledge for my own poor skills. And now I have to read that this thread is in risk to be closed. Why? Who tried to sell something here? Maybe someone can clear things up which one of the rules has been broken?
I myself ordered two of the gesshins (400 and 2000) not long ago despite of the very high custom and p+p costs, because there is no doubt about their quality. They are crazy fast, bigsized and worth every euro - even for me, paying a lot more than you will have to pay. Am I too not allowed to talk about that in this thread? I'm a homecook and carpenter, like sharpening and sharp equipment, and I always look for the best I can get for my money - and I look for the best information I can get too and this is a place where I can get the second one, thanks people sharing their knowledge with me. I have to confess, I'm confused now.

Thank you
Arkansas

[boar_d_laze]

Fehrtummelt!

BDL

[kcma]

2k-8k combo is great ;)

@Keith I'm personally not a fan of choxera line. Many love it, I don't. Fracture line is just one issue. The line is too high maintenanced. And not the greatest feedback. Too needy. I want stone I can splash and go, or soak and forget. Soak a while, but not too long? No thanks.

[kcma]

As for vendor review... I don't recall Jon reviewing anything, and bdl certainly isn't doing any vending I know of. Those rules are confusing.... perhaps we can have a review forum? Where people can review without fear of a perfectly good thread being locked? And vendors and jump in and discuss without fear of ban?

[LumberJ]

Great idea KC. I too think rules are getting confusing and don't want to see vendors getting banned for simply answering an inquiry.

[jmbullman]

The problem was rendered and the rules are confusing and hopefully we (moderators) will have a civilized talk about this soon. Jmbullman And once again my apologies for any confusion this caused and can be put behind us. Jmbullman

[Keith]

2k-8k combo is great ;)

@Keith I'm personally not a fan of choxera line. Many love it, I don't. Fracture line is just one issue. The line is too high maintenanced. And not the greatest feedback. Too needy. I want stone I can splash and go, or soak and forget. Soak a while, but not too long? No thanks.

It's interesting that you say this,I have not been using my two chosera's as of late.I seem to like my bester 1200 as a med stone & my 5K rika or kitayama as a finishing.Are you saying the jump from 2K to 8K is fine?I don't see why not.Are all your gesshins soakers or do you have the splash & go as well? The rika is a little small for my taste that & I like baseless stones that I can put in my holder.

[LumberJ]

I don't have any Gesshins but I jump from a 1.2k King straight to the Kitayama. So 2k to 8k would certainly not be a problem.

[kcma]

It's interesting that you say this,I have not been using my two chosera's as of late.I seem to like my bester 1200 as a med stone & my 5K rika or kitayama as a finishing.Are you saying the jump from 2K to 8K is fine?I don't see why not.Are all your gesshins soakers or do you have the splash & go as well? The rika is a little small for my taste that & I like baseless stones that I can put in my holder.

all the ones i had were soakers. i do like the 2k-4k-8k better than the rest. i'm still waiting for an orgasmic coarse stone that doesn't exist yet. 2k-8k is a good jump. even on wide bevels as all the gessin stones have great "range'.

[boar_d_laze]

...i'm still waiting for an orgasmic coarse stone that doesn't exist yet. To find one that didn't suck would be enough!

BDL

[Keith]

all the ones i had were soakers. i do like the 2k-4k-8k better than the rest. i'm still waiting for an orgasmic coarse stone that doesn't exist yet. 2k-8k is a good jump. even on wide bevels as all the gessin stones have great "range'.

Good luck,waterstones are better in the higher grits.I do not care what the brand a coarse grit they can dish some just with one damaged blade or major reprofiling.I stopped sharpening other peoples knives because some were so screwed up,it was not worth wasting my stones on.I never thought I would do this,but I found putting the edge right on a daimond plate(coarse)to reprofile damaged blades from heel to tip it actually works,after that alot of stone work.

Alot of persons here have thin edge japan gyuto or singe bevels that should never need a coarse stone at all.If I want to thin quickly behind the edge(first time on a new blade)I like the Bester 700 it creates a burr rapidly,it also dishes,I flatten it after every use wt. a daimond plate.Mark Richmond sells a set Bester 700,Bester 1200,& rica 5K.comes wt an eye loop for a good price.I am more than a little partial to the besters I like their feel & aggressive action.Working the 5K rica,it really is a very good finishing stone.

My gesshin has shipped,I'm thinking it will be a great medium stone,I have a couple knifes waiting for it:o

[phan1]

i'm still waiting for an orgasmic coarse stone that doesn't exist yet.

The Gesshin 400 not good enough for you? For me, it's still the best sharpening thing I've ever bought. I always start with this stone. It's just SO FAST and leaves a great edge all by itself. I go from a 400k to a 4000k without any trouble whatsoever. This stone literally cuts my sharpening time in half. If there's any issue, it does dish quickly, probably the fastest of any stone I've ever used. I actually would rather not use it for major repair work, even though that's what a 400 stone is supposed to do... I end up using it as if it were fundamentally a 1k-2k stone, hehe.

Anyway, yeah, the 8000k stone is really nice. It's the only very fine stone I use now. It leaves a VERY bite-y edge and feels nice too, soft but firm at the same time. But I do think at that price, it's something really only for the enthusiast and only for those who have knives that can really handle an 8k stone. I wouldn't use the stone on any knife that wasn't carbon and single beveled.

[boar_d_laze]

Anyway, yeah, the 8000k stone is really nice. It's the only very fine stone I use now. It leaves a VERY bite-y edge and feels nice too, soft but firm at the same time... I wouldn't use the stone on any knife that wasn't carbon and single beveled.

I don't get either of the restrictions.

If it's good for sharpening a shirogami #2 usuba which cuts almost nothing but mirepoix, why not a well-hardened AEB-L knife which does the same thing? What's so frikkin' magic about carbon? And why only a single bevel? What's your thinking? Shouldn't the stone be matched to the capacity of the alloy to take and hold a polish, and the tasks to which the knife is most often put? And other than use, isn't polish and taking and holding more related to grain and "scratch hardness" than anything else?

Am I missing something here?

Should I sell my 8K or consider myself an insensitive wastrel because I'm only sharpening "V" edged semi-stainless with it?

BDL

[thombrogan]

Should I sell my 8K or consider myself an insensitive wastrel because I'm only sharpening "V" edged semi-stainless with it?

Enjoying the sensual pleasures of a high-end waterstone and the edge it imparts is a luxurious extravagance. Taking pleasures in such acts is only a negative if you don't enjoy them or can't afford them. I would no more fault you for sharpening up your Konosuke HD wa-suji with your Gesshin 8K than I would seethe at a person with preternaturally sensitive kinesthetic awareness practicing neurosurgery instead of using that same potential to master the cello.

[boar_d_laze]

Neurosurgery or a transparent, fruit flavored dessert? Hmmm. Tough call. Which, would you say, is more of a "babe magnet?"

BDL

[thombrogan]

Perhaps I should've chosen a different string instrument.

[ksskss]

There's always room for cello :)

---
Ken

[boar_d_laze]

Phan,

Still interested in why you think an 8K is a bad idea for a really good, stainless and/or "V" edge knife which is restricted to the same work as a usuba and/or yanagiba. What is it about single bevels and carbon steels which make them especially worthy?

BDL

[phan1]

Its more of how I personally operate. For example, I have a AEB-L gyuto that does a lot of robust prep work. Given that condition, I see little point in improving that edge past my blue aoto. Jumping up to the Gesshin 8k would certainly improve the edge, but not so much that it would change my sharpening habits. But we also know that some steels just don't get that sharp, and a Gesshin 8k isn't going to change that. I'd definitely say the 8k would be a waste of time on, say, a VG-10 gyuto. I don't sharpen every day like KC, but I still sharpen often. Given that I rotate through a couple knives throughout the week, I still sharpen a knife almost every day on average. If I improved my AEB-L gyuto to the Gesshin 8k every time, well we're talking about a $100+ stone that would only last me about 2 years... Not very practical

Carbon single bevels will be the knives that just benefit the most from very fine stones. I only use the 8k on my yanagi. It's a knife that takes little abuse; the bottom half of my edge never even touches a cutting board. It just takes that screaming sharp edge very well, and its an edge that lasts given how the knife is used.

[boar_d_laze]

I figured your reasons would be something connected to your specific knives and how you specifically use them.

FWIW, I get enough mileage and advantage out of a good 8K finish on my Konosuke HD suji and gyuto to make it worth my time and money.

On the other hand, I very seldom take my old carbon Sabatiers near that degree of finish anymore, because they lack the "scratch hardness" to hold it -- although you can certainly feel the difference when they're fresh off the stones -- and because they get a lot of steeling. Depending on which sharpening kit is out, I usually stop the Sabatier progression with a 3 or 5K Chosera, or with a "Surgical Black" Arkansas. Love that black.

BDL

[Cadillac J]

Its more of how I personally operate.

My thoughts are in alignment with you on this. I've had a 10K SS pretty much since I started sharpening a few years ago, and I used to go up to it for every knife thinking that it was always the best option. But I quickly learned that although it refines the edge a bit more than my 5K, it is not something that I really desire on my double bevels. There really is no added benefit in cutting ability, just a better mirror finish and a more 'slippery' edge.

I'm now on my second 5K SS stone--it has been my stopping point for a while now and it really is perfect medium between ultimate sharpness and a bit of tooth in my opinion...just love it.

However, I've never used an 8K stone, let alone the Gesshin...if the edge characteristics were more inline with my 5K than a higher polish finish, then I don't think it would be overkill for semi/stainless double bevels like my Kono HD, CarboNext and Suisin IH.

[jmbullman]

I have the 5k as too and also use it at a stopping point or the rika. But sometimes i feel an 8k just slides through the food easier but that is probably a differenc in cutting styles an how long u spend on the ss. Some don't like it but I found it does good on most steel it just loads up a little faster which is no big deal, it is s great stone. Peace jmbullman (I have had the shine come of the 5k ss nicer than some 10k's)

[boar_d_laze]

I don't feel like my 8K edges are that much sharper than my 3Ks, in the sense of "falling through," but do get cleaner, glassy cuts on fish, poultry, crisp vegetables, and herbs especially. I hate ragged fish and bruised herbs. The birds and vegetables don't matter that much.

As a competent cutter and sharpener, my experience is that an 8K edge doesn't degrade slower or faster than a 3 or 5K. If you don't baby a polished edge it loses some of its special polish with use, sure. But so what? It doesn't take more or less to ding it out of true, or more or less to wear it. Everything else being equal, those things are functions of geometry and angle more than finish. So time to return to the stones is equal, and the polished edge gives you that extra performance for awhile at least.

With my sloppy sharpening technique, the extra trip to polishing stone doesn't take more than five minutes out of my life. The real work is with the two sharpening rocks. Considering an extra five minutes of something I enjoy anyway is the only drawback, it's worth it to me.

On the other hand, I don't polish out my red meat knives.

To each his own,
BDL

[Keith]

When are person's on this forum practical about waterstones.The boxes are cool,diff. shapes ,sizes,colors, temp,grits.Blades so sharp they stick in your cutting board(unless using plastic boards)

No rules here just preferences.I can understand Phans way of thinking.I have gone through not wanting to waste stones I really like on lesser knives.To me most blades do not need much more than a 4 or 5k for top cutting abiliy.I do like the single bevel carbons(Deba,Usuba,Yanagi)on the finest friggen stone I own.

[kcma]

Its more of how I personally operate. For example, I have a AEB-L gyuto that does a lot of robust prep work. Given that condition, I see little point in improving that edge past my blue aoto. Jumping up to the Gesshin 8k would certainly improve the edge, but not so much that it would change my sharpening habits. But we also know that some steels just don't get that sharp, and a Gesshin 8k isn't going to change that. I'd definitely say the 8k would be a waste of time on, say, a VG-10 gyuto. I don't sharpen every day like KC, but I still sharpen often. Given that I rotate through a couple knives throughout the week, I still sharpen a knife almost every day on average. If I improved my AEB-L gyuto to the Gesshin 8k every time, well we're talking about a $100+ stone that would only last me about 2 years... Not very practical

Carbon single bevels will be the knives that just benefit the most from very fine stones. I only use the 8k on my yanagi. It's a knife that takes little abuse; the bottom half of my edge never even touches a cutting board. It just takes that screaming sharp edge very well, and its an edge that lasts given how the knife is used.

i've been on a vacation for the past month, with no end in sight :D so....... yah lol. i haven't sharpened AT ALL!

as for SS5k vs gessin 8k. they're entirely different beasts. the 8k is noticably faster than SS5k. it just cuts more. imagine a 10k chocera that doesn't need constant soaking and drying and babying. won't develop cracks, don't worry you. it simply works.

[LennyD]

When are person's on this forum practical about waterstones.The boxes are cool,diff. shapes ,sizes,colors, temp,grits.Blades so sharp they stick in your cutting board(unless using plastic boards)

No rules here just preferences.I can understand Phans way of thinking.I have gone through not wanting to waste stones I really like on lesser knives.To me most blades do not need much more than a 4 or 5k for top cutting abiliy.I do like the single bevel carbons(Deba,Usuba,Yanagi)on the finest friggen stone I own.

Just for fun:.

prac·ti·cal/ˈpraktikəl/
Adjective:

Of or concerned with the actual doing or use of something.
(of an idea, plan, or method) Likely to succeed or be effective in real circumstances; feasible.

Sorry no mention of $110 pieces of synthetic rock, or $500 knives that one uses a few times a week at home, or just looks at with a gleam in their eye :rolleyes:

Maybe if I still cooked for a living I could better justify the costs of trying out some of the better regarded stones (and knives for that matter) and I really do want to eventually pick up a finer stone than the 6K arashiyama I stop at now just to see what I think and to be able to compare it to learn if it offers any real improvement, but honestly I have to believe that there must be an alternate option that will still have a good feel and produce a good result within a reasonable amount of time without having to spend as much.

Still that sounds like one really nice stone, and I am open to donations too :D

[boar_d_laze]

Lenny: It IS a really nice stone, and it does things an Arashiyama can't. You're not talking about practicality, and for that matter neither is anyone else with the exception of KC. You're talking about values, which although another thing is perfectly fine.

Better than an Arashiyama? It seems so to me; if it wasn't I would have said so. Worth the money? Again. My impression of the 8K's edge is that it's about the same as a Pure White plus a Kitayama -- and the Gesshin is less expensive than the combination. Less expensive than an Arashiyama/Kitayama combination too. Not to mention, it takes significantly less time to use one stone this fast than it does to use any two in combination.

If you want the particular quality of fineness and just enough friction there aren't a lot of ways to get it. Let me know if you can come up with something cheaper, and I'll gladly try it.

Everyone else: My suggestion regarding this level of finish on a gyuto/chef's is to try it if your knives have the scratch hardness to hold it.

BDL

[LennyD]

I guess you missed the last sentence of my post lol.

Seriously I do not doubt your claims (hell I have made purchasing decisions based on your previous statements ) and from what I have read it sounds like a really nice stone, and even one I would likely enjoy too.

Sorry if my sarcasm is a bit off at times too ;)

Guess I can try to see if I could sale off my 6k & 2k to cover part of the cost, but the expense is basically what my previous post was addressing.

It may truly be a bargain based on performance and possibly replacing two stones, but is still not what I would call inexpensive, and I do not believe it was intended to be so that's fine.

I hope you do not misinterpret my preference for true or top value with a dislike of expensive items as this is not the case, and what you're reading is just my way of evaluating etc.

[boar_d_laze]

Lenny,

No, no. Not at all. My bad. I understood what you meant, your sense of humor, and your financial concerns. My response was meant to provide more context in terms of "values" by focusing on the question, "Is the 8K worth it if you can afford it?" Sorry for both sounding so corrective and being unclear.

BDL

[kcma]

in the grand scheme of things... if a couple hundred dollars is a problem.... priority should be shifted.. just saying... buy what you like :p

[LennyD]

in the grand scheme of things... if a couple hundred dollars is a problem.... priority should be shifted.. just saying... buy what you like :p

Point taken, and not totally a bad one either, but could priorities in this case be inline with practical lol.

I do agree that everything is relative, and understand that this is also why not everyone drives a Bentley or collects fine art etc. or as you say priority.

It is just how all of this somehow is like driving blind, or going out for the night with your eyes shut and trusting your friends that the girl your taking home is worth the effort. You just do not know until you try :D