Initial Edge Pro results and help

[joepa150]

Just received the Edge Pro. Watched a few youtube videos and skimmed the manual. I sharpened 4 knives already. All of them but the cheap $10 Kitchenaid knife (too badly chipped and cheap steel) were really sharp.

I am not going to go into build quality or value. Just how it worked for the first attempt.

I sharpened a Henckels Chef Knife and a smaller utility type knife. Both were sharper than I ever ever got freehanding :)I also sharpened a Kershaw whirlwind which was hard to keep an even bevel since it was pretty curved.

The three knives all became really sharp and sliced through paper with ease BUT none of them could shave the hair off my arm.
I stropped the Kershaw and the Petty Henckels utility knife using leather and Flitz. To my surprise both were able to shave the hair off my arm.

This is great that I can finally get a knife this sharp.

My only problem is that I wish I could get the knife to be able to shave my hair off my arm without stropping.

Any suggestions?

[joepa150]

Oh yeah. Here is the technique I used.

Have these stones 220,400,1000 EP stones.

I started with the 220 on the Chef knife and 400 with the other two knives.

After I make sure I am sharpening the correct angle using the sharpy trick this is what I do. Example starting with the 220.
1)Sharpen about 15 strokes on using the first stone on one side until I get a burr on the whole blade.
2) Flip it over and sharpen about 10-15 strokes until I feel the burr on the whole side.
3) Go up to next stone (400)
4) Do about 12 strokes on the first side until burr is back on the other side.
5) About 10-12 strokes to get the burr back over to the other side.
6) Put on the 1000 stone
7) Use about 10 light strokes on first side
8) Flip and use about 10 light strokes on other side
9) Flip and use about 5 light stroked on first side
10) Flip and use about 5 light strokes on second side
11) Flip and do an ultra light no pressure stroke
12) Flip and do it again on the other side
13) Repeat 11 and 12 2 or 3 more times.
14) Pull the knife through a wine cork 2 times using just the wait of the blade to take off the rest of the burr

At this point it will shred paper but not cut my arm hair.

15) Alternate trailing strokes on my strop

Now it will shave my arm.

So is my technique wrong?
Do I need a higher grit stone such as the Chocera 5k?

I know some say you can get the blade sharp enough to shave arm hair using the 220 or 320 stones.

Would a few passes on the ceramic rod get the blade sharp enough to shave my arm?

[Benuser]

I'm no EP user. I see a little problem though. You go from the lowest stone to the next without first deburring. You're just sharpening on the next one as there wasn't a huge burr left (jump 2 to 3). Later on you're trying to reduce the burr without succeeding in eliminating it. Stay longer with the lowest stone. Regards. Bernard

[kcma]

It takes me hundred(s) of stroke to sharpen... how others can make a burr with 10-15 strokes will remain a mystery to me..

[joepa150]

It takes me hundred(s) of stroke to sharpen... how others can make a burr with 10-15 strokes will remain a mystery to me..

Looking at your post count, it is obvious you are more experienced than me so you may not even want to read this. I believe that if it takes you hundreds of strokes to great a burr it could be because of several things.
1) You are sharpening really hard steel
2) The grit you are using is too fine
3) You are using very light pressure
4) your angle is to low and your not hitting the edge

Everyone's technique is different. As long as you get the edge you are looking for then I don't see a problem taking 100s of strokes or taking 5 strokes to get the burr.

[Fred]

No, the reality is he just doesn't like sharpening fixtures. I'm not sure why you want to shave your arms but the solution would be to use the polishing tapes.

[stevenStefano]

To the OP, what angle are you sharpening at? Perhaps it is so high that the knife just won't get that sharp. And I wouldn't use the ceramic rod after sharpening, it is a bit of a waste of time. Chances are the grit of the rod is much lower than that of your finishing stone so you are basically going backwards. Just play around, there is still a learning curve with the EP, it takes a while to get good results

[boar_d_laze]

Looking at your post count, it is obvious you are more experienced than me so you may not even want to read this. I believe that if it takes you hundreds of strokes to great a burr it could be because of several things.
1) You are sharpening really hard steel
2) The grit you are using is too fine
3) You are using very light pressure
4) your angle is to low and your not hitting the edge

Everyone's technique is different. As long as you get the edge you are looking for then I don't see a problem taking 100s of strokes or taking 5 strokes to get the burr.

KC? You taking notes, brother? :)

[Chef Francis]

WOW. Tough crowd.

[FryBoy]

Looking at your post count, it is obvious you are more experienced than me so you may not even want to read this. I believe that if it takes you hundreds of strokes to great a burr it could be because of several things.
1) You are sharpening really hard steel
2) The grit you are using is too fine
3) You are using very light pressure
4) your angle is to low and your not hitting the edge

Everyone's technique is different. As long as you get the edge you are looking for then I don't see a problem taking 100s of strokes or taking 5 strokes to get the burr.

If you're getting a burr with only 5 strokes on the EdgePro, you're very obviously pressing too hard. Just stroke back and forth with no added downward pressure on the stone.

p.s. I suggest that you not lecture KC; he's one of the most knowlegdable guys here when it comes to knives and sharpening.

[VHo]

i have an edge pro, i sure can't get a burr in 10-15 strokes. maybe my knife was more dull to begin with, i dunno.

my test isn't shaving hair, rather cutting tomatoes, love the edges i'm getting.

also, kc, maybe you're not holding your mouth right, have too wide a stance, or feet not in line with plane of stroke.

[MadRookie]

i have an edge pro, i sure can't get a burr in 10-15 strokes. maybe my knife was more dull to begin with, i dunno.

my test isn't shaving hair, rather cutting tomatoes, love the edges i'm getting.

also, kc, maybe you're not holding your mouth right, have too wide a stance, or feet not in line with plane of stroke.

"holding mouth right..." hehe

Yeah, the OP needs to relax grip on knife and let the stone do the work....agreed KC...it could be several, even hundreds of strokes.....been there done that...depends on the final result you want.

....I hope the OP is taking notes - his queries are all being addressed on knife forums as well....

:)

[joepa150]

If you're getting a burr with only 5 strokes on the EdgePro, you're very obviously pressing too hard. Just stroke back and forth with no added downward pressure on the stone.

p.s. I suggest that you not lecture KC; he's one of the most knowlegeable guys here when it comes to knives and sharpening.

Thanks for the suggestion but that is why I stated that looking at KC post count, he probably wouldn't want to read this. I am not an idiot. I am not trying to offend KC in anyway. Just his statement was a mystery to me. I have rarely gone past 100 (if I had to guess) to achieve a burr. It takes me more than 5 strokes to get the burr. I don't count my strokes so I don't really know how many exactly it takes me to form the burr.

[BreadFan]

>>not lecture . . .

indeed. however, kcma lives in a different knife universe than the 'usual and customary' kitchen knife user.

the U&C knife dude does not actually need to shave hair off anything.
razor blades do a fine job of that.
a slightly more 'toothed' edge is probably perceived as 'sharper' in the average home kitchen.

the actual "application" of "knife" to "thing to be cut" affects the opinion(s) expressed.
julienne slicing a carrot is different than slicing salmon paper thin . . .

after three+ decades of freehand sharpening I bought an EdgePro.
I have the 120, 200, 320, 600 and 1000 grit "stock stones"

I use the "Magic Marker" trick to observe what the "angle" is doing.
on a 'bad' knife I start with the 120.
usually skip the 220
the 320 and 600 put a really decent edge on my Wuesthoffs.
for paring and santoku knives, I do finish with the 1000 stone.

without question I would offer the opinion that th number of strokes to raise a burr is hugely dependent on the starting conditions. looking at my Magic Markered 'old' edges under a 10x loupe, some take 30-50 strokes at 120 grit just to _get_ to the point the stone is contacting the "edge"

Wuesthoff has on-line videos of their processes - and meaning no dis-anything to the skill of their workforce, I do question whether the free hand final sharpening on a belt sander is accomplished at 15, or 17, or 20 degrees, or 25, or 30. . . .

having brought (a couple of) my near 40 year old freehand sharpened knives back back to 15 degrees per the EdgePro settings, I found those knives will not handle a 15' symmetrical sharpening. the edge is too thin, it fatigues and chips out.

the EdgePro (any jig...?) advantage is simply in one being able to establish and maintain "an angle" - whether in the long term the angle is "good" or "bad" depends on usage and application.

personally, I'm not into sharpening my knives on a daily/weekly basis - twice a year I can do.
I'm not a professional chef, I don't have 3-4 hours per day to devote to sharpening / stropping my kitchen knives to milli-micron edges, nor have I found it "necessary" to contemplate.

your mileage may vary.

[Keith]

[QUOTE=kcma;145336]It takes me hundred(s) of stroke to sharpen... how others can make a burr with 10-15 strokes will remain a mystery to me..[/QUOTE

I have only used freehand sharpening,KC your making fun yeh.Lets see a trained yanagi single bevel I can raise a burr on one heel to tip pass.Three finger,middle finger bent on edge,270 is 5 positions not including tip sharpening,I do 7 strokes each position, finger press only on trailing stroke.Thats 35 strokes on a 5K stone.With tip maybe 40.Gyuto double that,yeh I guess it could get up there wt. a dull blade.

[joepa150]

Ok so I am starting to get the hang of it but I have a few more questions.

I jump from the 400 to the 1000 stock EP stone. I noticed that when I use the 1000, I get an uneven looking scratch/polish look. I think I just need to keep going with the 1000 grit to even it up and to maybe take off the rest of the scratches left by the 400 grit stone. It just seems like I work work work and it does improve but still not perfectly even. I end up getting a bit tired that my strokes start to become inconsistent.

Any suggestions?

Would getting a 600 grit stock EP stone help this?

I was thinking of getting a Chocera 5k but the 600 maybe be more important if it will solve my problem.

[BreadFan]

for most of my knives I finish with the 600.

you've likely noticed the 1000 approaches a "polished" edge

jumping 400 to 1000, that could indeed entail a lot of light strokes.

[joepa150]

Once my sharpened knives start to dull, how could I maintain them on the edge pro?

[Mingooch]

joepa, I am no pro, but I am not a fan of the stock stones. If u are spending money, get others, chosera, shaptons, j-nats, whichever catches your eye, they are better. As far as maintaining the edges once your edge begins to dull, you can strop, strop with the edge pro, there are leather strops for it now, or u can use your highest stone for touch ups.

[FryBoy]

FWIW, I got this information from Ben at EdgePro some time ago comparing the stock EdgePro stones to the after-market stones for the EP made by Chosera and Sharpton, etc.

Edge Pro = Japanese
320 = 2000
600 = 5000
1000 just a little finer than the 8000
1200 exactly the same as the 15,000
2000 polish tape = 20,000
3000 polish tape = 25,000
6000 polish tape = 30,000 or 1 micron

[joepa150]

FWIW, I got this information from Ben at EdgePro some time ago comparing the stock EdgePro stones to the after-market stones for the EP made by Chosera and Sharpton, etc.

Edge Pro = Japanese
320 = 2000
600 = 5000
1000 just a little finer than the 8000
1200 exactly the same as the 15,000
2000 polish tape = 20,000
3000 polish tape = 25,000
6000 polish tape = 30,000 or 1 micron

Thanks for the info. I do believe that the EP are equivalent to a higher grit Japanese stone BUT I do not know what numbers to believe. The numbers you are listing seem to be almost unbelievably high. In my beginner opinion, if these numbers were true, then I would stop at a 320 for most of my kitchen knives and the 1200 grit stone would be awesome to use on a straight razor or if you wanted the ultimate scary sharp edge.

I think this chart might be a bit more accurate
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/3881/gritchart8111.png

I don't know what to believe but I do enjoy the Edge Pro and think it is a great product.

[kcma]

KC? You taking notes, brother? :)

Noted and learned ;p I'll find a knife to practice in while here in Philippines <3 nebermind, I'm just gonna eat out!

PS. Try harder, I don't think anyone here can actually offend me, plus, I'm wrong all the time, bdl knows ;)

[boar_d_laze]

Yes. He's right. Wrong every time.

BDL

[jmbullman]

I have been sharpening my own straight razors of about 2 yrs now and knives for a whole lot longer than that and if I was to stoP with a 1200 stone on my dovo carbon I would literally tear the skin off my face and I have never known anyone to use an ep on a straight razor but maybe I am wrong, I would be wrong about everything said on this post. Peace and confused jmbullman

[thombrogan]

Once my sharpened knives start to dull, how could I maintain them on the edge pro?

You could maintain the sharpness by using your finest or second finest and finest stones at the same angle at which you sharpened. Or just strop on your leather coated with Flitz until the edge loses its bite and completely resharpen at that point.

[FryBoy]

Thanks for the info. I do believe that the EP are equivalent to a higher grit Japanese stone BUT I do not know what numbers to believe. The numbers you are listing seem to be almost unbelievably high. In my beginner opinion, if these numbers were true, then I would stop at a 320 for most of my kitchen knives and the 1200 grit stone would be awesome to use on a straight razor or if you wanted the ultimate scary sharp edge.

I think this chart might be a bit more accurate
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/3881/gritchart8111.png

I don't know what to believe but I do enjoy the Edge Pro and think it is a great product.

Again, the information I posted was sent to me by Ben Dale, who owns the Edge Pro company and who invented the sharpening system. I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of his information, but if you want to check further, e-mail him at edgepro@gorge.net. I've found Ben to be very helpful and approachable.

[joepa150]

You could maintain the sharpness by using your finest or second finest and finest stones at the same angle at which you sharpened. Or just strop on your leather coated with Flitz until the edge loses its bite and completely resharpen at that point.

Can you go into further detail about using my finest or 2nd finest stone to sharpen/maintain?

Am I recreating a burr, using trailing strokes, alternating strokes, etc.

Thanks

[joepa150]

Again, the information I posted was sent to me by Ben Dale, who owns the Edge Pro company and who invented the sharpening system. I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of his information, but if you want to check further, e-mail him at edgepro@gorge.net. I've found Ben to be very helpful and approachable.

Sorry if it came out this way but I know these are not your numbers. I spoke with Ben before and he told me the 1000 was about a 10k Japanese Stone. He seemed very nice and knowledgeable and I am sure he can get a knife much sharpen than I can.

[FryBoy]

Sorry if it came out this way but I know these are not your numbers. I spoke with Ben before and he told me the 1000 was about a 10k Japanese Stone. He seemed very nice and knowledgeable and I am sure he can get a knife much sharpen than I can.Ben told me that his "1000 just a little finer than the 8000" Japanese stone; you say he told you that "1000 was about a 10,000 Japanese stone." Perhaps I'm confused, but those two statements seem to me to be consistent -- "a little finer than 8000" would be about 10,000.

[thombrogan]

Can you go into further detail about using my finest or 2nd finest stone to sharpen/maintain?

Am I recreating a burr, using trailing strokes, alternating strokes, etc.

Let's say you have three stones: 220, 400, and 1,000. Let's say you sharpened at 15 degrees (or any number from 10 to 50). If your edge is barely dull, use the 1,000. If it's fairly dull, use the 400. Whichever stone you start with, do raise a burr along the entire edge. Not a large burr, but a tiny burr. Flip over and repeat. Change to your finer stone and repeat. It doesn't matter whether you do edge-leading, alternating, or edge-trailing. You just want to grind off that little bit of steel that stands between you and your edge.

At this point, you'll have a weak, wiry burr across the entire edge. You can strop it away; keep flipping the blade over and using lighter than the weight of the stone arm to wheadle away the burr, or you can raise the angle a few degrees to cut the burr off and go back to your initial setting and lightly rehone the edge. I'd just strop it away until you feel ready to push your skills a little further.

[boar_d_laze]

In my experience, the grit numbers printed on and published for Japanese stones are inconsistent. Just talking numbers doesn't mean much without specific examples. Now that's only experience mind you, not theory or salesmanship. In my experience (there it is again), the 1000 EP is roughly equivalent to a Chosera 5K, Takenoko 6K or a Norton 8K, but not as fine as a Naniwa SS 8K, Naniwa Pure White 8K, or a Gesshin 8K.

The easiest comparison for me to make (because I have a set of Choseras for my EP) is that EP numbers are a little weird, but if you multiply them by around 5 or 6, you get to a rough Chosera equivalency.

For what it's worth, I don't see this as contradicting Ben in any way -- just giving additional context to his numbers.

BDL

[joepa150]

In my experience, the grit numbers printed on and published for Japanese stones are inconsistent. Just talking numbers doesn't mean much without specific examples. Now that's only experience mind you, not theory or salesmanship. In my experience (there it is again), the 1000 EP is roughly equivalent to a Chosera 5K, Takenoko 6K or a Norton 8K, but not as fine as a Naniwa SS 8K, Naniwa Pure White 8K, or a Gesshin 8K.

The easiest comparison for me to make (because I have a set of Choseras for my EP) is that EP numbers are a little weird, but if you multiply them by around 5 or 6, you get to a rough Chosera equivalency.

For what it's worth, I don't see this as contradicting Ben in any way -- just giving additional context to his numbers.

BDL

If Ben says his are finer than 8k and closer to 10k and others think it is closer to 6, 7 or 8k, it doesn't really matter to me. I was just curious just in case I buy another finer stone.

I see that you are saying the EP 1000 is roughly equivalent to the Chosera 5k.
If I want to buy a finer stone than the EP 1000, what would you go with )It doesn't have to be Chosera)?

I don't want to use names but I have asked this to two gentleman that I would consider very experienced with the Edge Pro this same question. One said the Chosera 5k would be the next stone to get because it is noticeably finer than the EP 1000 (after the Chosera 5k then he said to get the 10k). The other said that if I wanted to get the 10k Chosera to get it but since it is just a tad bit finer than the 1000 EP that they would just skip it and get something finer such as the tapes.

[FryBoy]

You could end your suffering by getting a complete set of Chosera stones for the EP from CKTG. Mark offers a set of 5 stones (400, 800, 2K, 5K, & 10K) for $150, and a set of 8 (400, 600, 800, 1K, 2K, 3K, 5K, & 10K) for $215. He also has large selection of other stones for the EP. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/edgepro.html

[MadRookie]

If Ben says his are finer than 8k and closer to 10k and others think it is closer to 6, 7 or 8k, it doesn't really matter to me. I was just curious just in case I buy another finer stone.

I see that you are saying the EP 1000 is roughly equivalent to the Chosera 5k.
If I want to buy a finer stone than the EP 1000, what would you go with )It doesn't have to be Chosera)?

I don't want to use names but I have asked this to two gentleman that I would consider very experienced with the Edge Pro this same question. One said the Chosera 5k would be the next stone to get because it is noticeably finer than the EP 1000 (after the Chosera 5k then he said to get the 10k). The other said that if I wanted to get the 10k Chosera to get it but since it is just a tad bit finer than the 1000 EP that they would just skip it and get something finer such as the tapes.

It is not just all about the fineness of the grit level, but factors like stone loading, feedback etc that sets the better aftermarket stones in a different league than the stock EP stones. The stock EP stones work very well, but the aftermarkets just work so much better.

I personally, repeat personally, having used a very wide diverse range of aftermarket stones, including Japanese naturals, am of the opinion that the stock EP stones are hopelessly overrated in grit numbers by certain peeps - even if you are a super skilled user of the EP, I doubt that some of the numbers mentioned can be squeezed out of them.

But yeah, as a departure point until one is skilled enough to make the crossover to the more "expensive" stones - stock ones are the way to go during "training".

....just my honest humble 2c worth as I see it......

[ksskss]

Note that a 1 micron particle is considered a 16,000 grit stone and a 30,000 grit stone is a half micron particle using a Japanese rating scale (eg Shapton stone ratings).

---
Ken