Favorite stone

[blwchef]

So after all these years, stones, and knives. I have decided that my cheap $28 king 800 is my favorite stone of all time. I have lately been working entire shifts (or two) with it's edge on my yanagi. For my debas it is must have. Petty and gyuto are good with it too. If I only had one stone this would be it. Clean cut usuzukuri white fish, toothy enough to handle those blasphemous crusty fried rolls and katsuramuki daikon. Mine is almost dead and I have a 1200 bester but it just doesn't compare to me. So I will be buying another for sure.
I still love my aoto and naniwa SS 5k, but if I'm in a hurry then this is the stone use.

Quick fix
500 Beston
800 king
good to go

seeking perfection
500 Beston
800 King
5000 Naniwa SS

[thombrogan]

+1. It cuts fast, leaves a great stand-alone edge, and also paves the way for finishing stones or other means of polishing if you're into that thing.

[blwchef]

And it feels good

[LumberJ]

I haven't tried the 800 but the 1.2k I really love as well. Slower cutting but a great edge and the stone just feels so nice.

[doug8066]

Well, we all have our favourites. :o
If I had to have just ONE stone, it would currently be my Norton 4000/8000 waterstone.
Not necessarily because it's the best of all, but because it's very versatile, and you can
a/ refine the edge with the 4000, and
b/ bring up a very very good fine cutting edge with the 8000.

Also - excellent feedback, consistent cutting action, slow wear, etc. Just a great stone
(I see the cut throat razor guys like these stones, so they must be okay)

[doug8066]

Sorry, blw, I respect that you are a hard working chef, and my own use of knives is just domestic, very lightweight. So my perspective is different from yours.
Regards
Doug

[Schtoo]

It's funny you know.

After all the stones I've used, there is a core 'set' which I use for myself, take places and ultimately compare to everything else I ever use. They are my benchmark stones, but I fear if I mention what they are, the post will be kicked downstairs again.

Oh well.

What's interesting though is that the one stone that I never thought I'd ever drop from that core set is on very, very shaky ground right now. I've been given a stone that seems to be just as good or better in every regard. And in aspects that are important to me, there's nothing I have in it's grit range (#800-1500) that even matches it, let alone betters it.

Amazing how your view can change in a week or three.


Stu.

[ksskss]

I couldn't begin to narrow it down to one stone.

---
Ken

[black.echo]

Another +1 on Kings. I currently like the 1k. As people have said, it does a great job and has incredible feel.

[Keith]

I used just a 1000 wt. my Masa gyuto's,gives that toothy edge that works well for all kinds of cutting demands for banquet prep.Not so for my Yanagi's,Sashimi & Sushi I like a polished edge mostly a 5K for touch ups.

Thats before I got corrupted with this forum,increased my stone collection and got into strops.

[Cadillac J]

I've always wanted to try the King 800, but I'm somewhat of a minimalists with stones and don't want any overlap.

My Chosera 600 is a great coarse stone for its speed, feel and finish at this grit...

...but the one stone I feel so connected with and couldn't live without is my Naniwa 5K SS. I'm on my second one right now, and everything just seems so natural while sharpening on it, not to mention it leaves a great finish and edge refinement.

[jmbullman]

I also love my chosera for the same reason alOng with my naniwa 5k and also my shapton 5k also I use either or just depending on my mood. Peace jmbullman

[pumbaa]

I have seen jmbullman's collection and i can say for certain he has no shortage of stropping or sharpening equipment.

[thombrogan]

That Chocera 600 sounds good.

As much as I like my King 800 (and there's so much to like about it), my favorite stone is my Sigma Power 3F #700 Carbon stone. It's finish is scratchy; it leaks grit when softer steels and iron cladding are ground on it; it leaves that same ragged edge diamond benchstones leave before they're broken in; but it cuts fast like diamond benchstones before they're broken in and the harder the steel, the better it seems to work (and the better of a finish it leaves as compared to what it does with softer steels and cladding). It can't be left alone (at least with my limited skillset) and needs at minimum a loaded strop or to be followed by other waterstones (such as the Naniwa 5K SS) to be useable (hard to deburr with that stone), but it's been very good to me.

It's been a long time since I've used a Beston 500 and I've never used a Bester 700, so I don't expect everyone to drop everything and seek out this stone (though it couldn't hurt, could it?), but it's been nice to me and involves so much less soaking and drying time than the Beston 500 (I think the Beston left a more even finish, though).

[blwchef]

I couldn't begin to narrow it down to one stone.

---
Ken

lol, as I would expect from you Ken.

[boar_d_laze]

KC was very high on the Bester 700 for awhile, but I think he's left it for the coarse Gesshin. I have his old Beston 500 which I think sucks considerably less than most coarse stones; but it IS a coarse stone, not a sharpener, and not what most people would build a set around.

I like my Bester 1200 quite a bit, but my sharpening style is quite different from what Brandon's currently seems to be, and I don't see it -- or any stone -- as an "only." I'm still stuck thinking of sharpening -- from profiling all the way through polishing -- as a three step process, best done with three or four stone kit.

If you put a gun to my head and limited to me one stone, and if the Gesshin 2K is as fast as claimed, that could be the one. Otherwise, reluctantly, back to the Bester.

At one time I had a set built around the Shapton Pro 5K, but have learned since it's not a good idea to organize around anything that fine -- or, for that matter, that weird or cranky. Anyway, I can think of several stones in that range which are significantly better. Offhand, and in order of preference: Gesshin 6K (based on a brief, in-store tryout), Takenoko, Naniwa SS 5K, Chosera 5K and Suehiro Rika.

BDL

[blwchef]

That Chocera 600 sounds good.

As much as I like my King 800 (and there's so much to like about it), my favorite stone is my Sigma Power 3F #700 Carbon stone. It's finish is scratchy; it leaks grit when softer steels and iron cladding are ground on it; it leaves that same ragged edge diamond benchstones leave before they're broken in; but it cuts fast like diamond benchstones before they're broken in and the harder the steel, the better it seems to work (and the better of a finish it leaves as compared to what it does with softer steels and cladding). It can't be left alone (at least with my limited skillset) and needs at minimum a loaded strop or to be followed by other waterstones (such as the Naniwa 5K SS) to be useable (hard to deburr with that stone), but it's been very good to me.

It's been a long time since I've used a Beston 500 and I've never used a Bester 700, so I don't expect everyone to drop everything and seek out this stone (though it couldn't hurt, could it?), but it's been nice to me and involves so much less soaking and drying time than the Beston 500 (I think the Beston left a more even finish, though).

You are right Thom. The Beston does leave an even finish. THe Bester 700 is too hard for my tastes. Cuts fast but I just hated the feel and could never connect to it. I like medium to soft stones with plenty of mud.

[thombrogan]

I like medium to soft stones with plenty of mud.

My new favorite conforms to that, but woe to all who try "playing/refining" in that mud - it's like New England beach sand. Rough, unforgiving, and full of tasteless Kennedy jokes.

@ BDL,

Would your at-gunpoint choice be because it offers as close to an ideal combination of speed and polish as one could tolerate under a forcibly Spartan condition? Or because it's so large you could use it to stop the bullet and then subdue your assailant? Or because you've been locked in a store in LA and the owners won't let you leave without a purchase?

[blwchef]

Takenoko is a great finishing stone for sure. It was a hard toss up between it and my Naniwa SS 5K.
I do like the the bester 1200 a lot for sharpening my wifes work knives. She likes most of her edges more 50/50 with the exception of her 240mm sujihiki and her 210mm gyuto. Those are more 90/10 and get the Sigma Power 1000 and Aoto.

[blwchef]

I want to try one of those geshin 2000 too. I'm nearing the end of some stones soon so I'm sure Ill pick one one up.

[kcma]

i love the bester 700. i still argue with jon as i love the bester 700 better than his gessin's in some aspect. for one, it just seems like, feels like, and possibly is a more indestructible stone. i mean, it begs to be punished, not babied. gessins all need more babying (even if you an leave them in the water). and you can get a lot of raw speed out of bester if you put your arm and back into it. gessin can too, but it just feels a bit more fragile, like... i'd break it. but the similiar speed aside, gessin all leave VERY VERY good edge for their given grit rating. which means each and every gessin stone i've used have a better sharpening "range" than all other stones retailed.

[thombrogan]

Have you used all of them? Or just the soakers?

[Keith]

I like the Besters,some of the stones mentioned I have never used I am sure they work well.Used the bester 700 for rapid thinning behind the edge.Because the coarse stones dish faster,I try to use less fingerpad press. also use the ends of the stone so not as much middle dish.I do not say do this if not careful the blade could come off the stone a good way to slice your fingers I've seen it happen at work.

I like my new 2000 gessin a versatle stone,just bevel & level it after every use it is ready to go next time.

[jmbullman]

I've been useing a chosera 600 to thin behind the edge does the bester 700 do it any faster kc I am just curious on ur op on that and how long does the bester last u or about how many knives can u go through before it's unusable. I've done about 30 or so with my 600 and not seen alot of wear yet but I know you use alot of pressure more than I do and just wondering how both stones stack up side by side for you if you have ever used the 600 that is. Peace to you sir, jmbullman

[kcma]

@Thom the soakers are better IMO

@Jim chocera 10k is a ridiculously fast10k stone, but I'm not as impressed with the rest of chocera line up. I never used the 600 myself, but the bester 1k and 2k are faster than chocera 1k (when pushed hard). And they are trouble free! Which what I dislike most about the entire chocera line.

[Keith]

@Thom the soakers are better IMO

@Jim chocera 10k is a ridiculously fast10k stone, but I'm not as impressed with the rest of chocera line up. I never used the 600 myself, but the bester 1k and 2k are faster than chocera 1k (when pushed hard). And they are trouble free! Which what I dislike most about the entire chocera line.

This is my experience as well the Bester 1000 & 1200 are fast cutting stones wt. good mud & feel.They are wide I like that too.

[Cadillac J]

I've been useing a chosera 600 to thin behind the edge does the bester 700 do it any faster kc I am just curious on ur op on that and how long does the bester last u or about how many knives can u go through before it's unusable. I've done about 30 or so with my 600 and not seen alot of wear yet but I know you use alot of pressure more than I do and just wondering how both stones stack up side by side for you if you have ever used the 600 that is. Peace to you sir, jmbullman

I'm not sure about the Bester 700 comparison, but I've done a ton of work with my Chosera 600 and it is still in such great shape and doesn't seem worn that much--which is crazy considering how easy it is to bring up thick mud (love this stone a ton). Then again, I feel the same way about my Bester 1200...I've had for over 2 years and done hundreds of sharpening sessions on it and it is still like new.

Although it varies depending on what I'm doing, I would say I use medium pressure on my Bester 1200 and below.

[memorael]

I would stick with a natural coticule/bbw combo. Once a knife is sharpened well all you have to do is maintain and a coticule is pretty fast and very versatile. If you use slurry it cuts really fast no problem pulling a burr, mix the slurry from the BBW and the coti and you get a mix of something in the 3k to 6k depending on what side you use the mix, use it just with water and you get a 4kish with the blue that is slow and around 10k more or less depending on the coticule side. Those things are freaking awesome.

[phan1]

I've said it too many times but I just F'n love the Gesshin 400. I think everyone should try this one stone; it's just so much different than anything else I've ever used. And although I always progress to a blue aoto afterwards, the edge this course stone leaves behind is very good in itself (feels like a good 1k edge). And I just love the beautiful scratch pattern it leaves behind, not the "sharpened on the sidewalk" look that most course stone leave. If I just had one stone, this would be it. After thorough use, the only downside is that it does dish quickly. I've learned to adjust to that (lighter pressure, more even strokes etc.). I personally view it as a 1k stone that cuts like a course stone, because the edge and scratch pattern it leaves behind is totally reminiscent of a 1k stone. Because of that, I almost see it as a versatile "finesse" stone, not a typical 400 stone that you would only use for repair work.

My lineup is still:
1) gesshin 400 (I almost always start here)
2) blue aoto
3) gesshin 8000 (only for my yanagi)

The beauty of the gesshin 400 really comes through when you view it as part of a progression. Since the 400 leaves such a nice edge and scratch pattern, I jump to the the blue aoto super easily. And I only need to spend about 40 seconds max on the blue aoto since my edge and bevel were beautifully set already by the 400 stone. In fact, I spend more time on the 400 stone, an already very fast cutting stone, than any other stone. When put in that context, my sharpening time is severely decreased.

If using Blwchef just as an example, he has and ideal lineup of 1) beston 500 2) king 800 3) 5k SS. Though I've never done it, I believe that you could jump from the Gesshin 400 to the 5k SS just about as easily as a king 800 to 5k SS. And given that the Gesshin 400 cuts faster than a beston 500, what you've done by going Gesshin 400 to 5k SS is eliminating a stone from you lineup and significantly cutting down your sharpening time.

But this is just how I see it. I don't mean to speak for other people and I don't think Jon himself would necessarily endorse my use of the Gesshin 400. I'm just saying my personal experience.

[jmbullman]

I'm not sure about the Bester 700 comparison, but I've done a ton of work with my Chosera 600 and it is still in such great shape and doesn't seem worn that much--which is crazy considering how easy it is to bring up thick mud (love this stone a ton). Then again, I feel the same way about my Bester 1200...I've had for over 2 years and done hundreds of sharpening sessions on it and it is still like new.

Although it varies depending on what I'm doing, I would say I use medium pressure on my Bester 1200 and below.
Same here my 600 chosera shows very little wear after a year of use, yesterdAy that's what I started with to fix pumbaa's yanagiba and followed by a set of shapton pros and finished with a snow white it turned out absolutely beautiful the chip was gone and the back side was fixed it was actually a sujihiki but it came in only sharpened on one side for some reason we checked the part number to make sure the actual item sent was supposed to be a suji and it was so I fixed it according to the part number said. He had a new chroma he ordered also and it wasn't sharp at all I finished it with a 5k rika and was deburring with a felt block and cut rite through to my pinky finger and I am feeling that this morning with a nice throb when I woke up. O well the price we pay for sharp knives. Peace and I am glad you love your chosera too. Peace, jmbullman

[Schtoo]

Phan,

Thanks for the run down on the Gesshin #400. I don't have one, and I'm interested in how it works. What you've written there gives me at least some idea of what it does and how it does it.

Very useful, and thank you.


In other news, I've got a new favourite stone. It's not a Gesshin and it's not soft, so probably no interest here. It's also achingly new, and not cheap so it will offend sensibilities as well.

(I don't know if my opinion counts for anything, but it's the best #1000 grit stone I've ever used.)

Stu.

[jmbullman]

Do tell I would love to know what it is, no secrets here when it comes to a good stone my friend. Peace, jmbullman

[Schtoo]

Newest generation Sigma Power #1200. Didn't exist a few months ago, and they've tweaked the existing Sigma Power hard #1000 to make it I believe. Basically filled it with more, finer abrasive. Less binder, but a harder formula and called it good.

I'm still trying to work it out, because it's doing things it shouldn't really be able to do. I spent a few hours torturing it over the weekend, and it continues to impress me.

I'll keep working on it and see how it goes.

Stu.

[jmbullman]

I'll have to look into those next time, do u mind if I ask where you buy yours at or do you distribute them yourself. Peace, jmbullman

[black.echo]

I've said it too many times but I just F'n love the Gesshin 400. I think everyone should try this one stone; it's just so much different than anything else I've ever used..................

Agree on Gesshin 400. Cuts fast and leaves a nice scratch pattern. I don't sharpen in large enough quantity to comment on dishing. If I had to choose one stone between that and the King 1k............I couldn't.

[Schtoo]

I'm pretty much the only game in town on some of them, specifically the #400 and #1200 for the time being at least.

The luxury of providing the specifications (or at least the idea) I suppose. :)

Stu.

[ksskss]

lol, as I would expect from you Ken.

Hell, I couldn't even narrow it down to half a dozen favorite 1k stones these days, LOL. And then when I add naturals in that grit range, it's even more. It's really more like what's my favorite 1k soft stone, my favorite 1k hard stone, my favorite for single bevels, chisels, abrasion resistant steels, etc etc. And then when I blend compounds (CBN, diamond and alumina suspensions for instance into the stone grits, on naturals and synthetics, well that's a whole new ballgame all over again. I could go on ....

---
Ken

[Keith]

Newest generation Sigma Power #1200. Didn't exist a few months ago, and they've tweaked the existing Sigma Power hard #1000 to make it I believe. Basically filled it with more, finer abrasive. Less binder, but a harder formula and called it good.

I'm still trying to work it out, because it's doing things it shouldn't really be able to do. I spent a few hours torturing it over the weekend, and it continues to impress me.

I'll keep working on it and see how it goes

Stu.

I know woodworkers like the Sigma Power stones so they must be good.Not often but when I sharpen my wood chisels,I like the Bester 1200 & finish on a polishing stone

[blwchef]

I have the soft sigma power 1000 at home. It is an excellent 1000 grit stone. Firmer than a king but with that same swooshy feel I love. Cuts faster and leaves an excellent even finish. It is spendy, $100 a few years ago. I used to be my "go to" before the Naniwa 5K when I had a the Suisin Ginsanko Kiritsuke. It's only a few millimeters thick now which is why I replaced it with the cheap although lovely king 800. Heck my king is only a few mm thick now too, almost home retirement time. I'm making friends with my Bester 1200 right now just to get me by for a while.
I'm sure a Gesshin 400 and 2000 are in my future but not for a couple months. I need a new 210 gyuto too so I need to do some prioritizing first.

[Schtoo]

I have the soft sigma power 1000 at home. It is an excellent 1000 grit stone. Firmer than a king but with that same swooshy feel I love. Cuts faster and leaves an excellent even finish. It is spendy, $100 a few years ago.


Ouch.

$100?

Double Ouch... (literally)

Unless it was the big monster #1000. Which I doubt, since they're really difficult to find anywhere else.

No wonder nobody in these parts pays them any attention. Funny, since I would have thought tough, nice working full sized stones for a reasonable prices might have garnered some interest. Oh well.

Stu.

[kcma]

Prioritize?? Haha :D

SP is getting harder and harder everytime. Great for tools, but too hard for knives now...

[seandowling]

has anyone mentioned the suehiro rika 5k yet? i feel like it's just as fast as my bester 1200 and leaves almost as refined an edge as my naniwa 8k, although not as polished.

i'm curious about those new gesshin and nubatama stones though, and especially the sigma power stones. seems like there might be some better options that aren't perma-soakers. anyone have much experience with these new stones?

[jmbullman]

I forgot about the suehiro rika, and I just used it the other day on a boat load of partially destroyed Chicago cutlery knives, I actually used that as my stopping stone on that preticular set and it worked great rarely needs flattening and cuts and polishes like a monster. Great stone for finishing off many many knives. Good call on that one. Peace jmbullman

[ksskss]

has anyone mentioned the suehiro rika 5k yet? i feel like it's just as fast as my bester 1200 and leaves almost as refined an edge as my naniwa 8k, although not as polished.

i'm curious about those new gesshin and nubatama stones though, and especially the sigma power stones. seems like there might be some better options that aren't perma-soakers. anyone have much experience with these new stones?

While vendors post on these forums who do have experience with the products they sell (including me), vendor restrictions preclude us answering these questions :(

---
Ken

[seandowling]

haha yeah, i'm familiar with this newly strict development. makes sense but i'm not really a fan as i feel like pretty much everyone keeps it in line. oh well, i really need to give you a call some time soon anyway.

[ksskss]

Looking forward to it :)

---
Ken

[kcma]

as much as we disagree on many things ken, i think that restriction makes little sense ;p

[ksskss]

Yea, not my house and not my rules. But I do and will respect it.

---
Ken