Chosera 5k for Edge Pro initial impression

[joepa150]

Today I received an Chosera 5k for the Edge Pro. I wanted something to follow the 1k EP stock stone. I touched up my knife with the 1k EP. The edge had a near mirror edge but some scratches I can still notice if I look closely.

I soaked my 5k in water for 15 min. I then used it and to my surprise the edge now is less shiny and has more of a visble scratch pattern!!!!! It seems like I am taking a step back using this stone. I do like the feel of the stone when sharpening better than the 1k EP.

Am I doing something wrong?

Is this possible?

Any Suggestions?

I was so excited to take my edges to the next step and now I feel like I just got suckered into buying something off an infomercial.

[boar_d_laze]

It seems as though your Chosera might not have been properly prepped.

Start by soaking the new stone as you would any stone before flattening -- in the case of a Chosera it takes around 15 minutes or maybe a little more to get the moisture deep enough for flattening. Also soak your 1K as you would for flattening and/or sharpening.

Flatten the new stone with your flattener (whatever you use), and use the flattener to relieve all 12 edges, cutting them from 90* to 45*. That's something you should do with EVERY new stone. It strengthens the stone and gets of rid of the "rails," which otherwise form very quickly.

After the flattening the new stone and relieving the edges.

Finally rub the 1K and 5K stones together so the 1K laps the 5K smooth and brings up a slurry.

Set the 5K stone aside for a bit and sharpen with your 1K per usual. Deburr after the 1K, if that's your ordinary process.

Using a little water from your hand, a squirt bottle, or a spritzer, splash the 5K so it's good to go, and sharpen/polish your knife per usual. Deburr. If deburring scratched your knife, and if you care (it seems you do), return the knife to the 5K for a few very gentle strokes to restore the polish.

Every stone has a characteristic shine and polish, some are brighter and smoother than others. Choseras may not be the best polisher in the world, but they're far, far from the worst. A 5K Chosera should polish better than any 1K.

Hope this helps,
BDL

[joepa150]

It seems as though your Chosera might not have been properly prepped.

Start by soaking the new stone as you would any stone before flattening -- in the case of a Chosera it takes around 15 minutes or maybe a little more to get the moisture deep enough for flattening. Also soak your 1K as you would for flattening and/or sharpening.

Flatten the new stone with your flattener (whatever you use), and use the flattener to relieve all 12 edges, cutting them from 90* to 45*. That's something you should do with EVERY new stone. It strengthens the stone and gets of rid of the "rails," which otherwise form very quickly.

After the flattening the new stone and relieving the edges.

Finally rub the 1K and 5K stones together so the 1K laps the 5K smooth and brings up a slurry.

Set the 5K stone aside for a bit and sharpen with your 1K per usual. Deburr after the 1K, if that's your ordinary process.

Using a little water from your hand, a squirt bottle, or a spritzer, splash the 5K so it's good to go, and sharpen/polish your knife per usual. Deburr. If deburring scratched your knife, and if you care (it seems you do), return the knife to the 5K for a few very gentle strokes to restore the polish.

Every stone has a characteristic shine and polish, some are brighter and smoother than others. Choseras may not be the best polisher in the world, but they're far, far from the worst. A 5K Chosera should polish better than any 1K.

Hope this helps,
BDL

Thanks for the info. I am a bit confused about the 12 edges you refer to? This is mounted on a plate for the Edge Pro so I count 4 edges, the top, and 4 sides. Am I missing something?

I was thinking this also about the rails/edges. The middle feels smooth but the edge it feels rough.

I talked to Mark at CKTG and he said that the 5k Chosera would leave a less shiny edge than the Edge Pro 1k BUT is actually a finer stone. He stated that different stones leave have different characteristics.

Also what does "Finally rub the 1K and 5K stones together so the 1K laps the 5K smooth and brings up a slurry. " do?


I will try what you suggested. Thanks again.

[wsf]

When BDL referred to 12 edges I think he was talking about an unmounted stone. You're correct, an EP stone only has 4 edges to chamfer.

Stu Tierney (Schtoo), a widely-respected stone monger, strongly suggests soaking choseras between 5 and 10 minutes, no less, no more.

I've never seen a 5k bevel (properly applied) that was less polished than a 1k bevel. Not sure what Mark was talking about.

I've also never heard of anyone using one chosera to raise slurry on another, and I've never used slurry on my EP stones. I think if you flatten, chamfer and soak the 5k you'll be in business.

[joepa150]

When BDL referred to 12 edges I think he was talking about an unmounted stone. You're correct, an EP stone only has 4 edges to chamfer.

Stu Tierney (Schtoo), a widely-respected stone monger, strongly suggests soaking choseras between 5 and 10 minutes, no less, no more.

I've never seen a 5k bevel (properly applied) that was less polished than a 1k bevel. Not sure what Mark was talking about.

I've also never heard of anyone using one chosera to raise slurry on another, and I've never used slurry on my EP stones. I think if you flatten, chamfer and soak the 5k you'll be in business.

I will try and camfer and soak less. I soaked 13 minutes and then splashed the stone every so often. Maybe the rough edge that wasn't camferred was making the edge less polished.

Do stones have a break in? Maybe this is the reason?

Not sure exactly what Tom was talking about but I posted this in another forum and Tom from Jende posted this
"This is a loaded question, for sure!

First, I read this: http://jendeindustries.wordpress.co...

That's just the tip of the iceberg...

Different mediums work in different ways. Our good friend PCM81 gives a very good basic explanation here: http://ws.magicmrv.com/Stone_types....

The Chosera 5K will begin to expose all previous scratches, while making scratches itself, and is in group 2 of PCM's page. They should be uniform, yet shiny. The EP 1K stock basically leaves shallow scratches with polishing effects, and is in group 1.

Welcome to the rabbit hole!"

[joepa150]

Weird. I am looking at my blade and noticed it now has a few chips in it over using it once last night to cut a stromboli. Is it possible that using the Chosera 5k made my edge more susceptible to chips verse using the 1k EP?

[thombrogan]

Is it possible that using the Chosera 5k made my edge more susceptible to chips verse using the 1k EP?

Sort of and not really. The apex where the bevels join to form an edge might be smaller with the 5K compared to the 1K, but the removal of the 1K scratches also remove tiny stress risers from the edge. Chips can come from using an angle too narrow for the knife in question, using a cutting board that's evil for all but those with the lightest of touches, and from improper deburring. Okay, there are probably more reasons, but those are how and why I chip my knives.

One nice reason for stropping on flexible media (i.e. leather or felt) or intentionally convexing an edge while freehand sharpening (which will convex the edge regardless of one's desires) is that it lets microbevels thick enough to withstand the knife's use without letting the sharpener know the ego-crushingly high number of the microbevel.

[boar_d_laze]

Yes, I was referring to an unmounted stone because I misread your post. With a stone mounted for an EP, all you have to prep is the surface and the four edges -- with a very light touch on the edges.

Yes again. You have to flatten and lap the surface of every new Chosera before using. They are not ready for prime time ootb. It's also a good idea to use a short soak and work up a little slurry on the finer stones before using -- as opposed to just "splash and go." You don't need a nagura or anything like that to start the mud, just rub the stone against whichever stone you used previously.

BDL

[ksskss]

I wouldn't suggest using the previous coarse stone for generating mud on the finer stone as this would purposely mix in the coarser particles into the slurry and NOT leave you with a 5k level of finish. Am I misreading this? You should genreate the slurry if you wish to with either a very fine diamond plate or ideally the same grit stone using another piece of the same stone. Is this necessary? I don't find it necessary as - especially in the case of a 5k chocera, it is already a very soft stone that easily generates it's own mud from just sharpening.

---
Ken

[boar_d_laze]

I should have been more clear about using the previous stone to lap and form mud. I start with that surface and when the stone looses up and swarf gets into the mud, I rinse the stone with more water.

BDL

[joepa150]

Tried the 5k Chosera again on another knife. This time I beveled the edges of the Chosera and flattened again with my DMT. Once again the knife was recently sharpened up to an EP 1k. So I hit the knife with the EP 1000 to start and then finished with the Chosera 5k. I soaked the Chosera for about 10 minutes this time instead of the 12 min I used last time. Also instead of keeping the Chosera Clean, I just kept it wet but left the Mudd on there.

The results.......Are the same. It is a nice edge but the EP 1000 leaves a noticably shinier edge :( I know shinier doesn't always mean sharper but the edge the Chosera leaves may or may not be sharper. It is very hard to tell.

Is it possible that I have the wrong stone???? The plate says 5k but the stone doesn't have any markings. Could it be the 2k or 3k??

[thombrogan]

What color is the stone? The 400 grit and 1,000 grit Choseras are green (1,000 is a darker green), 600 grit Chosera is blue, 800 grit is red, 2,000 grit is a brownish yellow, 3,000 grit is pink, 5,000 grit is gray, and 10,000 grit a very light blue.

[joepa150]

What color is the stone? The 400 grit and 1,000 grit Choseras are green (1,000 is a darker green), 600 grit Chosera is blue, 800 grit is red, 2,000 grit is a brownish yellow, 3,000 grit is pink, 5,000 grit is gray, and 10,000 grit a very light blue.

Its gray so I guess it is the 5k.

I will keep on trying different things I guess. Maybe work more on the Chosera 5k to see if it starts out dulling the finish but eventually polishes the finish.

[joepa150]

I had a progression question in another forum a few months ago and I just reread it. It seems like Choseras tend to leave a hazy finish until you get to 10k according to this post

"If I do a rebevel I go DMT Xcoarse, EP 180, 220, 320, 600, 800, 1000, Chosera 3000, 5000, 10000 then strop with a EP 6000 tape on a glass blank.
The thing is I start getting good polish with the EP 800 and 1000 then when I move to the Chosera 3000 it kinda hazes the finish up. I don't get the mirror back until the Chosera 10000.
"

[FryBoy]

As I've said before, according to Ben from Edge Pro, the EP 1000 stone is equivalent to about 8000 in Japanese stones, which I assume applies to the Chosera. I don't know if that's accurate, but it seems consistent with your observations.

[joepa150]

As I've said before, according to Ben from Edge Pro, the EP 1000 stone is equivalent to about 8000 in Japanese stones, which I assume applies to the Chosera. I don't know if that's accurate, but it seems consistent with your observations.

According to most charts I see online, the EP 1000 is around 7 microns and the 5k Chosera is something like 3 microns. I am starting to believe that the EP 1000 really is closer to 8k regardless of what the chart says or the actual micron size.

Is it even possible for a stone to have a higher micron level but actually leave a finish equivalent to a much lower micron stone?

[thombrogan]

Absolutely! Some of the natural stones have micron equivalents that are 40,000 grit or higher and yet they leave frosty and misty finishes instead of gleaming mirrors.