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View Full Version : Review of the Watanabe Kuroichi Cai Dao



Fred
02-13-2005, 06:18 AM
I might be able to wrap up this review with just two words - big and heavy. Seriously, my Kuroichi Cai Dao from bladesmith Shinichi Watanabe is his light pattern knife but it is a real handful.

Model – Watanabe Kuroichi Chinese Cleaver - Light
Blade length – 8 7/8"
Overall length – 14"
Weight – 18 1/4 oz.
Construction – Hand forged carbon steel sandwich kuroicho style.
Blade – Sandwich with white steel core and iron exterior
Handle – Riveted mahogany handle on partial tang.

I remember reading on Watanabe's sight some time ago that he doesn't make Chinese cleavers. You can imagine how surprised I was when a fellow Foodie Forums member posted about one of his cleavers. I went straight to the site and ordered the light pattern model he had pictured there. Light is my term, not his and it is certainly not light, weighing in at over 1 lb.

For those that are unfamiliar with the term kuroichi, it means "black one" in Japanese and refers to the black finish on you see on the blade. The knives come out of the forging and heat treating process with this black finish. The bladesmiths usually grind it off as they remove any of the hammer marks. In this case, Watanabe left it there, hammer marks and all and only ground the bevels. The result is a rustic, unfinished looking product but one that resists corrosion quite well thanks to the kuroichi finish. Rustic would certainly describe the appearance of this Chinese cleaver.

The handle is simply a piece of mahogany with a kerf cut in the top that wraps around the tang, leaving the spine of the tang exposed. It is attached with a couple of brass rivets. It is simple and effective.

The light pattern cleavers are basically vegetable slicers and choppers in Chinese cuisine while the heavy models are used for meat or similar products. This "light" pattern cleaver certainly slices vegetables quite nicely, it will also handle heavier duty work very well. It is a big, heavy knife and a tough one. It will become my heavy pattern cleaver.

Even though knives normally come from Japanese makers with partially finished edges, Watanabe typically sends them nicely sharpened with polished edges. This knife was no exception. I was able to put it to work right out of the box with just a wash and rinse. Despite the practice I've had over the past year with cai dao's, I'm still no Martin Yan when it comes to using these knives. But I can assure you these big blades are capable of, not only a rough chop, but a fine brunoise, if that's what you need. They do an excellent job on a wide variety of products and this one has done an excellent job for me.

I'll mention that I much prefer Chinese cleavers with some belly on the blade. It makes the job easier and it allows me choose the hand position I want rather than one the blade and cutting board force me to take. So they are more comfortable for me. The Watanabe cleaver certainly has some belly and, in my opinion, just the right amount.

My major problem with the knife is its prodigious weight. I'm used to using Japanese gyutos and sujihikis which are like light sports cars compared to this 1 lb plus brute. I found that the two small fingers of my right hand that grip the handle became a little sore and tired from the experience. Since the knife is so heavy and so blade heavy, I needed these two fingers, not only to stabilize the knife but to keep it from dipping forward. If I use this knife for any long cutting sessions, I'm going to have to develop some new muscles in my fingers that don't get used much with gyutos. I've never experienced this finger fatigue with another Chinese cleaver, but I've never used one this big and heavy before. I'm truly glad that I didn't order his heavy pattern model!

To sum up, this is a rustic and unfinished looking knife, but one made with the best materials by a talented and well trained bladesmith. It is long and heavy compared to every other cai dao I own or have used and I'm certain it would work all day every day in a kitchen for the lifetime of the cook and then be able to be handed down to the next generation. I recommend it with the comment about its weight. My ratings.

Fit and finish - 2.5
Performance - 4.5
Ergonomics - 3

http://www.foodieforums.com/knife images/watanabecaidao.jpg

Sid Post
02-13-2005, 03:51 PM
Looking at the picture and considering the blade length is almost 9 inches, I'm guessing the height (cutting edge to spine) is in the range of 4 inches. 36 square inches of steel would have to be exceptionally thin to keep the weight down. I'm also guessing the profile is pretty flat with the only bevel being at the cutting edge.

My 300mm Gyuto doesn't feel heavy but, I suspect is has a much smaller amount of steel in it due to the metal ground away in profiling the blade "flats". It would be interesting to compare a knife like this to my Gyuto. I think I may need to track down a traditional "cheap" stainless model that is thinner. On second thought though, making a stew and cutting large potatoes or tougher cuts of meat, that weight might be a real asset.

I like the overall profile and size of this knife. My Henckels Pro-S model works reasonably well but, I find it doesn't work on large potatoes very well. It is very flat and lacks enough mass and edge geometry to cut the potatoes without help from pushing on the spine. Wet potatoes stick tenaciously to it as well so, it doesn't work well as a "scoop". As a result I don't use it much. While it works well on celery and carrots, my Gyuto fill that role well. Since the Henckels isn't as tall as I would like, it doesn't scoop much off the cutting board at one time either.

Prior to reading this review, I would have thought the knife in question would have been the "one" for me. The weight is a little bit of a concern but, since Shinichi is no longer offering them for sale, I guess it doesn't really matter at this point. I guess I need to have Andy hook me up with one of his cleaver suppliers to see if I can find a model in between my Henckels and this one....hmmm

Andy777
02-13-2005, 05:59 PM
Fred, excellent summation of the cleaver. It's a beautiful knife but very heavy, even for me. For delicate work I still use my Chan Chi Kee cleaver which is noticeably lighter. I was trying some Iron Chef Chen cuts the other day with it so I'll share the result here. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/andreslynn/DCP_0988.jpg)

**DONOTDELETE**
02-14-2005, 06:46 PM
Fred, my I ask a favor? I've always liked your honest reviews of various knives as it gives others a glimpse into what a knife is like. The favor would be to include something in your pictures that serve as a kind of reference to size and shape of the knife you're reviewing. For instance, I'm having a hard time visualizing this cleaver but if there was a dollar bill next to it, for instance, it could bring things more into perspective for those who've never even held a cleaver. Just an idea. Thanks and looking forward to a review of a Murray Carter Wa-Gyuto. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Fred
02-14-2005, 06:58 PM
OK, I can do that. Here's the cai dao sitting on an 18" chopping block. Hope that helps a little.

http://www.foodieforums.com/knife images/choppingblock.jpg

Scott
02-14-2005, 09:47 PM
Fred,

Well, you have what may well be a collector's item. I was just out at the Watanabe site and can no longer find any of his cleavers. And judging from his "busy" meter, I would doubt that he will have any more anytime soon.

He is so busy that he has even raised the price on a number of items.

Congrats!

Scott

Oded
02-14-2005, 10:39 PM
Following the mysterious disappearance of my Watanbe Yanagiba I have just asked for a quote for a replacement.
I have forwarded Shin the year old email with the specs and price of the old blade.
I cannot tell if seeing the old price is the reason but in my case, it only went from $520 to $527 with a 2 weeks quoted delivery, similar to last year.

Fred
02-15-2005, 08:08 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Fred, excellent summation of the cleaver. It's a beautiful knife but very heavy, even for me. For delicate work I still use my Chan Chi Kee cleaver which is noticeably lighter. I was trying some Iron Chef Chen cuts the other day with it so I'll share the result here. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/andreslynn/DCP_0988.jpg)

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm impressed, Andy. You have some remarkable knife skills, particularly with a cai dao. I hope everyone else checks this out. It is insprirational.

Andy777
02-15-2005, 11:12 AM
Thanks for your kind words Fred. As flattered as I am I really can't take too much credit, it was really quite simple. I guess I just have Iron Chef on the brain /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Scott
02-17-2005, 10:46 AM
Oded,

Wow! I feel for you and I'll bet you would really like to know/meet whoever "misplaced" it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

It is interesting that some of the prices on his site have remained the same, while others have increased. I don't blame him for following the laws of supply and demand, not one bit. I'd do the same.

I guess that this was most noticable with the kuro-uchi santoku and nakiri which I have been looking at. Both went up $10 in price (about 11%) and the aoko-stainless clading option also increased $10 (about 66%). However, they are still at the same price at japanblades.com, at least for now.

Anyway, I had been looking at getting a Chinese cleaver and, personally, had to settle for a cheapo product (~$22). I just wish I was done with my degree so I could have satisfied my desire for finer products. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Andy, how about a "cai-dao cutting for dummies" lesson on how you did it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Scott

Fred
02-17-2005, 10:48 AM
Patience, Scott. Life is long. It sounds like you will get where you want to go.

Scott
02-17-2005, 10:58 AM
Fred,

Yeah, you are right. When I was younger and single, I scratched my itches much more frequently. Now that I have a couple young girls (5 and 2), I find I need the soothing balm of living vicariously through those of you who scratch your own itches... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Makes me wonder what I did with all the money I had then...

Scott

Andy777
02-17-2005, 12:44 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, I had been looking at getting a Chinese cleaver and, personally, had to settle for a cheapo product (~$22). I just wish I was done with my degree so I could have satisfied my desire for finer products.


[/ QUOTE ]

My favorite cleaver only cost $38, it's the one I used on the potato.

[ QUOTE ]
how about a "cai-dao cutting for dummies" lesson on how you did it?

[/ QUOTE ]

The cut was easy to achieve just square off the veggie and make it the size you want, then make small cuts that you want to show up in the final product (kinda like making a paper snowflake in elementary school) then make super thin slices parallel to each other but not cutting all the way to the end leaving 1/4" so all the slices stay attatched. Then just fan it out. Takes about 30 seconds. Just watch Iron Chef Chen it's all quite easy.

Fred
02-17-2005, 12:50 PM
It's easy for someone with good knife skills!

Scott
02-18-2005, 02:11 PM
Andy,

Ditto what Fred said! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Last night I decided to put a sharp edge on my new cheapo Chinese cleaver. It too quite awhile to put an acute enough bezel on the darned thing. The previous bezel was probably more appropriate for use as a meat cleaver as opposed to the knife-like uses I bought it for.

Anyway, I finally got it down to about 15 degrees (30 degrees included) and it is pretty sharp now. Maybe tonight I'll try practicing cutting some more potatoes with it and my other knives. I'll see if I can do anything remotely like what you achieved (yeah, right). What I'll probably have to do is do them individually... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Scott