Edge testing...

[Scott]

Hi Everyone,

Ok, I ran across this on another site that discussed edges for planing blades. The guy who ran the site used a method of evaluating edges and edge wear that we have seen before. He took pictures using a microscope. However, the unique aspect of his pictures was that he used a microscope that most of us can afford. The Intel Play QX3 USB microscope. You can see what it can do here:

http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/qx3.html

You can find them for about $50-70 (plus shipping) on eBay. They feature 10x, 60x, and 200x magnification which is sufficient to resolve features down to less than 0.5 microns, depending on lighting. The native resolution of the microscope is 320x240, interpolated to 512x384. It can also record up to 15 frames/second video. This model has been discontinued.

The current model is the Intel Play QX5 microscope. It also has 200x magnification. However, the improvement is a four-fold increase in native resolution to 640x480, with a commensurate increase of interpolated resolution.

You can get the QX5 for a short time at the site below for $78 plus shipping... about $10 off what you can find it for elsewhere.

http://www.bluedeals.com/qx5midiblqx5.html

Anyway, I think that this would be a very good way to evaluate the edges of knives from the factory, edge evaluation after sharpening with either different techniques and/or different stones, and/or edge evaluation after use. It would allow us to correlate methods with results (eg. Carter sharpening methods and three finger testing results).

I thought I'd mention it for any of you who have wanted to take their sharpening to the next level. It could also be used with cut food to actually see the differences between sharp and dull cuts. Etc., etc.

Scott

PS. I'm buying one "for my daughters" (2 & 5 years old) so they can use it to look at things up close... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[yuzuha]

I have one of these http://www.greatscopes.com/vision.htm 10x-30x with optional eyepieces for 20x-60x Alas, I can't take pictures with it (unless I find a cheap eyepiece CCD... the one they sell is $200, which is more than I want to spend just to post a few pics)

[Scott]

yuzuha,

Sweet! Definitely much higher quality than what I'm getting. The optics look like they are very nice.

When I was trying to figure out what I'd like to get, I really wanted to get a regular microscope and then get a camera adapter for my 6MP Nikon dSLR. I figured that with that resolution, I would be able to take some outstanding pictures! However, the only decent adapter I could find was this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26411&item=7504435 953&rd=1

Definitely more money than I wanted to spend.

However, I did find an alternative that you might be interested in:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14023&item=6167609 389&rd=1

It has the same resolution as the Intel, but for people who already have a microscope. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Scott

[Scott]

Well, I finally got the microscope in today and took some quickie edge pictures. They aren't very good because the lighting isn't right, but I thought I'd post them.

The knife I took edge pictures of is one that I reprofiled and removed the serrated edges from while watching Carter's sharpening DVD. It is a Cold Steel K7 stainless kitchen knife (like a 7" petty, about 1/16" across the spine) that was made in Japan and has been discontinued. I have no idea what steel it uses.

I sharpened this knife about 3 weeks ago. It was "sharp" by the "Carter three-finger method". Right now it is "smooth", but not yet "slick". It has basically been the only knife my wife and I have used for the last three weeks. The whole edge is roughly in the same shape as the picture. I would imagine that it has 15 degree bevels, but it is hard to tell as thin as the blade and the bevels are.

Anyway, I'm going to post the best pictures of the edge at 10x, 60x, and 200x. I think I can do better with some practice, but that may take awile... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Here they are:

http://www.gymw.com/foodieforums/AE10x.jpg
This is 10x...

http://www.gymw.com/foodieforums/AE60x.jpg
This is 60x...

http://www.gymw.com/foodieforums/SE200x.jpg
This is 200x...

I have to admit that I'm surprised how good a shape this knife's edge is in considering how long it has been since I sharpened it and how much use it has seen.

Scott

[Fred]

Thanks for the images, Scott. The steel on the CS kitchen knives, by the way, is AUSA. Good cooking.

[yuzuha]

Nice pics, Scott! Wow, I see what they (the site you found mention of the scope on) meant about that hood giving everything a blue cast. Is it removable? If not, I wonder if one of those little halogen illuminators or fiber optic flashlights could help with the lighting. (most of the microscope illuminators run more than your scope but I've seen little flashlights with a fiber optic wand that run anywhere from $10 to $70)

You have a nice consistant scratch pattern there. Looking forward to more photos. ^-^

[VHo]

excellent pics Scott! inspirational. you guys get me going.

I'm intimidated by sharpening at the moment. tried my neighbors grinding stone, I've no idea what grits. it was rougher on one side, smoother on the other. I can't tell shit at the moment. so maybe I need that microscope! but it's for pc's and I'm a mac guy. (my friend, who designed chips for intel, told me to get a mac) then I reminded myself I'm not a super foodie, just a domestic bachelor. I'll figure it out, as Fred said, as long as it's sharp.

love that two birds w/ one stone routine. anything for those little angels of yours! (congratulations by the way) I think you also need a boy so you can buy him some cool toys you can play with at christmas.

vho

[Scott]

Fred,

Thanks for the steel info! I was wondering what it was as it has held up much better than I anticipated!

Yuzuha,

I haven't had a chance to take a detailed look yet, but I don't think it can be removed. However, you are right in that it definitely needs more light. I'm going to have to come up with a good light source. Probably try to get a fairly bright LED to get it to where the sensor isn't straining so hard to resolve the "subject".

I will definitely have more pictures. Mike Stewart on KF is putting a convex edge on a couple of my knives and I plan on taking pics of the edges along with a review of how they cut, so stay tuned.

VHo,

Yeah, I wanted this thing for quite some time, but hadn't been able to figure out an angle for it. However, my oldest daughter (5) has gotten into flowers, etc. and I was trying to find a magnifying glass for her to look at them and, "BINGO!", we had a winner! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

However, as for a boy, my wife thinks we are done. She is tired of changing diapers and doesn't really look forward to another pregnancy. I really cannot blame her... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Scott

[Ken]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the images, Scott. The steel on the CS kitchen knives, by the way, is AUSA. Good cooking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fred, do you mean AUS8? I'm familiar with that steel, it's a soft steel with low wear resistance that Kershaw, among others, uses in their low-end folders. Never heard of AUSA before, though. Maybe it's a variant?

[VHo]

I recently found a morter and pestal that spoke to me at the restaurant supply store.

from watching food tv, I think it was the naked chef, I've had it in my mind that I needed one, but could never find the right one. now that I have it, I can't remember exactly what it was I needed it for. it sure feels good, just the right size and weight.

Scott,

I noticed you describe yourself as a professional student. what degree are you working on now? or maybe a better question is, what do you want to end up doing?

vho

[Scott]

Ken,

After Fred's message, I did a bit of digging and found this link:

http://ajh-knives.com/metals.html#metal28

What would I do without Fred? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

VHo,

I started college in 1981. It took my 12 years to finish my BA, with a detour to get my AA in 1984. I started my MBA in 1996 and finished in 1998. I'm working on my PhD in business now and hope to finish by this time next year. It's been a long road. One thing I have learned by all of it is that I will never stop learning (reading and taking classes). For me, life would just get too boring without it. I'm hooked. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Scott

[Fred]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the images, Scott. The steel on the CS kitchen knives, by the way, is AUSA. Good cooking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fred, do you mean AUS8? I'm familiar with that steel, it's a soft steel with low wear resistance that Kershaw, among others, uses in their low-end folders. Never heard of AUSA before, though. Maybe it's a variant?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, thanks. My fingers didn't keep up. AUS8A. Similar to 440C, a pretty good cutlery steel. It's no VG-10, though, as you know.

[Scott]

Fred,

Yeah, it is too bad that the edge that they come with is so bad. The serrations on the current batch of CS kitchen knives is not too bad, but what they had on my knife was literally like a picket fence. It was OK for hard skinned fruits and veggies (not great, by any means), but was really poor when used on meat, etc.

When I decided to practice Carter's method like he did (removing serrations on his practice knives), it was a no-brainer first choice!

As for the steel, that link I provided earlier indicated that CS was heat-treating the steel on the soft side. I'm surprised because with all the use my wife and I have given it since sharpening, the edge has yet to roll over, dent, or chip. I would say that it has seen use equivalent to at least a full day in a commercial kitchen, maybe two.

At $20 it would get a definite recommendation from me if it had a plain edge. The way it is, removing the serrations is just too much work to make it worthwhile. I also like the handle, though CS seems to have changed that too. It is kind of a shallow waffle pattern rubbery handle. Very secure grip, though on the small side.

Take it easy and I'm glad everyone enjoyed the pics. I'm looking forward to taking more when my knives get back from BRKT.

Scott