Cladded INOX Stainless ... ???

[Q_Egg]

I may be having a new Sujihiki 300 made. The maker states .... 'Inox stainless steel sandwiched with stainless soft steel'. One top alternative was Tadatsuna INOX which I though to be a 'single-steel' blade (albeit not honyaki).

Can anyone comment on the SS 'cladded' INOX approach and any experiences? It might suggest a thicker blade which may not be ideal for a 'slicer' ..... although other makers clad their carbon core with SS ... :confused:

Tom B

[thombrogan]

Tojiro DP knives are stainless-clad INOX knives (19C27, baby! Yeah!) and they range from thickish parers and nakkiri to thin gyutos and Blazen uses soft stainless over their powdered steel wares. The soft stainless (aka the Scratch Magnet) is easy to grind away should your knife need thinning.

[Q_Egg]

...... 'scratch magnet' :( The comparable Tadatsuna 'single steel' INOX should not have such tendencies.

Tom B

[thombrogan]

No, it wouldn't. Soft steel scratches easier.

[Q_Egg]

Huge amounts of info from my earlier Thread have 'shaped' my thinking and narrowed choices. I remain unclear about Tadatsuna's approach and implied strengths in this 'Carving Knife' given their 'single steel' INOX blade.
What is the Yang to Tadatsuna's Yin ? :confused: ..... (cuz there surely is one)

Tom B

[kcma]

tadatsuna yanagi :)

[thombrogan]

With Hitachi and Takefu (among others) making steels that have a thin, high-carbon core and low-carbon sides, it's easier for the makers to offer a knife with a thin, hard edge for performance with a profile and overall geometry that's easier for them to grind and polish into a pleasing form. Something like a solid piece of VG-1, 19C27, or Ginsanko hardened in the low to mid 60s of the RC scale - it's going to take longer to grind, much longer to polish, wear out abrasives and motors at a faster rate (now you know why CPM-10V isn't a standard knife steel ;) ) as well as the people finishing the work pieces. Make that same steel less than a millimeter wide and wrap it in some 410 or 420 class stainless or ink pattern Damascus and the performance of the knife is the same, but there are less people with aggravated carpal tunnel buying less new grinding belts and replacement motors.

But I'm not trying to help anyone look at anyone else's yang, you perv.:p

[Q_Egg]

kc ... some day .... ;)

Thom ... so one can conclude that Tadatsua's INOX or Suisin's INOX (honyaki:rolleyes: ) are sound choices given this required 'extra' effort versus others' quality, cladded' versions. Perhaps not major noticeable user sensations, but at the maker input side nonetheless.

(btw .. the maker is Heiji-san and I have just had a long term 'thing' about having him make me a knife)

(and then one can always spend extra cash on DrNaka's new find ...... Suehiro New Stone Gokumyou) .... :eek: don't give me a bad time .....

Tom B

[thombrogan]

so one can conclude that Tadatsua's INOX or Suisin's INOX (honyaki:rolleyes: ) are sound choices given this required 'extra' effort versus others' quality, cladded' versions. Perhaps not major noticeable user sensations, but at the maker input side nonetheless.

We could, but the steel at the edge is what matters for the cut. Everything else is there to add mass and volume where it is hoped will be providing a mechanical advantage. The cladding gets in the way of highly asymmetric sharpening and being furtively vain (a cleaning monosteel gyuto is a looker, but not an active attention seeker like a damascus-clad bubbadoo).


(btw .. the maker is Heiji-san and I have just had a long term 'thing' about having him make me a knife)

Explain your concerns to this Heiji and see what he says. You've been spoiled by the hard, oxide scale on your kurouchi wares and a monosteel suji could help prevent an unnecessary humbling. Who needs that for big bucks spent on an ultra high-end booboo snipper?


(and then one can always spend extra cash on DrNaka's new find ...... Suehiro New Stone Gokumyou) .... :eek: don't give me a bad time .....

Confused here. How/why would I give you a bad time about new stones? I try only doing that to myself and the occasional stone seller.

[Q_Egg]

Is the Aritsugu-A Suji 275 (aframestokyo) a 'single'steel' blade AND a SS compromise in terms of the stated 7% chromium ?? Seems like a 'practical' buyer would find the price point ($238. shipped) very hard to pass.

Tom B

[mongatu]

Yes, the A's are single steel and pretty much behave as a true stainless, although they technically are not due having only 7% chrome content. Consequently, they do have a tendancy to develop some rather faint and hard to see yellowish water stains or spots after a while, but these are easily rubbed or polished out, if they bother you. They are pretty hard to see anyway. The stuff is stainless in the sense that it pretty much doesn't rust or pit on you the way carbon can and it is pretty non reactive.

I don't think the A's "gokinko" steel is necessarily the best choice for a suji, however. But that's just my opinion based on that I find it a little tricky to sharpen. Personally I would rather have a Tadatsuna Inox (ginsanko) suji, but they are quite a bit more expensive. But you know, you usually get what pay for with this stuff and with Tadatsuna, you really do.

[Q_Egg]

Yes, the A's are single steel and pretty much behave as a true stainless, although they technically are not due having only 7% chrome content. Consequently, they do have a tendancy to develop some rather faint and hard to see yellowish water stains or spots after a while, but these are easily rubbed or polished out, if they bother you. They are pretty hard to see anyway. The stuff is stainless in the sense that it pretty much doesn't rust or pit on you the way carbon can and it is pretty non reactive.

I don't think the A's "gokinko" steel is necessarily the best choice for a suji, however. But that's just my opinion based on that I find it a little tricky to sharpen. Personally I would rather have a Tadatsuna Inox (ginsanko) suji, but they are quite a bit more expensive. But you know, you usually get what pay for with this stuff and with Tadatsuna, you really do.
---------------
Yes ... something is just amiss given how long that knife sets there with so many knowledgeable buyers always lurking ....;) No question about getting what one pays for ... and Tadatsuna is right at the top of my 'limited' budget list. Moritaka is right there too and Heiji will end up close to $50, higher when shipping gets added .... plus a 3-month wait. Shige 2970 Wa-G will just have to do some slicer tasks until a 'best' choice emerges.

Tom B

[mongatu]

Things could be worse. Most people would love to be "stuck" slicing with a Shigefusa wg.

[kcma]

i'd take my tadatsuna/suisin over shigefusa anytime :p even yanagi, they're great knives but their cost and material and style isn't my favorite combination.

[Fred]

Thom, I can't stand it. What is a booboo snipper?

[thombrogan]

Fred,

Any cutting implement capable of causing booboos is a booboo snipper. It started with scissors, moved to my pocketknives, and finally extended to my kitchen cutlery.

Tom B,

There is no choice - not a single one - you can make in this decision that won't leave you with that "what if?" feeling. No one wa-handled slicer will "have it all," so you'll second-guess your purchase the moment it's made and keep second-guessing it for years to come. Just pick one, stick with it, and torment yourself with regret instead of paralysis. :)

[Q_Egg]

Everything was on hold until I received a firm price from Heiji (So Y) for this knife. Now that is in, I have all the info I had hoped for.
I agree, once a choice is made, there will be ongoing glances at the top few alternatives, wondering how they might have performed.
Heiji is a 'safe' choice since enough of the attraction is having even one example of his forging skills.
Thanks all for the help on the 'cladded SS' question.

Tom B

[mainaman]

Thom, I can't stand it. What is a booboo snipper?
kids call any kind of wound a booboo, go figure.

[mongatu]

Well good luck with whatever you end up with. :)

[thombrogan]

kids call any kind of wound a booboo, go figure.

And it sounds more quaint than "sucking chest-wound maker," too!