Tadatsuna's white steel blades

[anvlts]

Hello there,
as far as I understand it, Tadatsuna doesn't clad their double-beveled knives. Are then white steel knives same as white steel honyaki from other makers? Can somebody enlighten me on this?

Also, does Tadatsuna do custom orders? I wonder if he would consider making a thicker knife (3.5mm vs 2mm at the spine).

Thanks.

M

[paulraphael]

The white steel knives (western style) are solid.

From what I've heard, custom orders are really tough. I don't know if Tadatsuna doesn't have a custom policy, or if the dealers who sell to the west (there are only two of them) don't like to deal with this.

Thanks to the language barrier, even getting the correct stock order can be a bit of a challenge :p

If you speak Japanese I think you'll have a much better chance of ordering something custom, or at least of finding out the company's actual policies.

[Q_Egg]

I always check with Hideki Miura to see what they have in individual blades ... not advertised. He offered some thicker white steel Wa-Gyutos to me months ago that were only available as 'one-off' sales.

Tom B

[jwpark]

Marco,

I really wouldn't consider it honeyaki. In my book, honeyaki is a solid steel knife that has one section tempered differently than the rest, like you Watanabe.

Jay

[anvlts]

Marco,

I really wouldn't consider it honeyaki. In my book, honeyaki is a solid steel knife that has one section tempered differently than the rest, like you Watanabe.

Jay

I don't think I have seen any other maker who makes knives from solid White steel. So is Tadatsunas gyuto tempered the same throughout the whole blade? What is the advantage over cladded knives? I guess, it might not warp as much but might be harder to sharpen. Anything else?

[paulraphael]

Solid is more expensive, because good blade steel costs way more than the type 405 stainless typically used for cladding.

Some people think solid knives give better feedback and feel more responsive than clad ones. This fits my own limited experience, but i have no idea how universally true it is.

[spaceconvoy]

Try Konosuke for custom orders... plus he speaks English.

[mongatu]

The standard and even the "Fujiyama" (their high grade) finished White steel Konosukes like the one I have, are not solid, however. They are kasumi or hon kasumi knives, although my example is still very very nice, and super thin. I guess they probably can make a solid White steel knife as a custom order. It might actually have to really be a true honyaki knife from them to get solid.

Btw, both my clad Konosuke and my unclad Tadatsuna are extremely easy to sharpen. I don't think being clad or unclad makes any appreciable difference, at least with respect to ease of sharpening, on these knives. The cladding ends pretty high above the edge on mine so it doesn't even touch the stones.

[JasonD]

I think also honyaki knives are supposed to stay sharp longer. I wonder if this is from the idea that solid steel knives won't have any carbon loss to the cladding material, and therefore it has more dense carbide structure? I dunno, I'm just guessing at it.

[kcma]

Konosuke gyuto are clad. In a gyuto... It really makes no difference in regards to sharpening. Bigger difference is cutting. Even that is subtle... But seems like makers prefer cladding when making knives.

[DrNaka]

I think also honyaki knives are supposed to stay sharp longer. I wonder if this is from the idea that solid steel knives won't have any carbon loss to the cladding material, and therefore it has more dense carbide structure? I dunno, I'm just guessing at it.

For gyuto and other western style blades; cladded knives using aogami super or powdered steel are harder and stay sharp longer than honyaki.

For Japanese style knives mizu (water) honyaki is supposed to be the best. There are some Japanese style knives made by powder steel.
But the traditional Japanese chef does not use them.

[pwet]

Marco,

I really wouldn't consider it honeyaki. In my book, honeyaki is a solid steel knife that has one section tempered differently than the rest, like you Watanabe.

Jay

so my suien is honyaki ! great. :p

[paulraphael]

I suspect that true honyaki construction (with differential heat treatment) is done more out of tradition than for any practical purpose. It's a relic of swordsmithing; the most important quality in a sword is that it doesn't break.

Knives are a lot shorter than swords, and we don't whack each other with them. There just doesn't seem to be an issue with a knife breaking, even if it's thin, made of solid hagane, and heat treated to a high HRC.

[pwet]

not sure. it can also avoid a lot of chipping, not only breaking the blade in two.

[Fred]

Honyaki construction wouldn't avoid chipping by definition. The hard part of the honyaki blade is at the edge so it can be brittle as a result.