Newbie first post! Global or Shun? Sharpening steel?

[dglevy]

Gosh, this is a great forum! I got here after reading the New Yorker article about Bob Kramer* and then, by chance, meeting a writer from Cook's Illustrated who recommended the site.

I'm not much of a cook (typical bachelor), but I love sharp knives! I've been salivating over many of the knives mentioned in these forums but am going to (try to) be restrained in what I buy. After all, unless I suddenly change my cooking habits thanks to new, sharp knives, my purchases will only be used for cutting fruits and carrots. On occasion, I plan to bring the knives to friends' houses when we cook together. (I'm a great prep cook, lousy chef...). So, those are my current plans, at least.

Here are my questions:

I'm looking at a Shun Classic 6" utility knife ($75) vs. a Global 4 1/4" utility knife ($46). Any comments on one vs the other? (The differences in length are not an issue for me.)
Does it matter which sharpening steel I buy? They are not cheap! I've seen comments elsewhere in the forum that one doesn't even need a steel, one can just use a pot lid or ceramic plate.

Read on, if you want more details:
It's been a long, exciting journey of discovery for me, these past few weeks. At the start, I didn't even know what a sharpening steel was for, so I had a lot to learn. I've read a lot and have been weighing the pros and cons of carbon vs stainless and am ultimately probably going to own both. I've looked at--and lusted after--various knives recommended here: Tojiro, Masamoto, Suisin, Misono, etc., but the pricing was either prohibitive or similar to Shun/Global and they were not available locally for sharpness testing. (I found the thread discussing cheap carbon knives particularly helpful for what will probably be my next purchase. I'm also thinking about ultimately investing in some good sharpening stones and using them not only for my knives but for those of friends and acquaintances as well.)

The reason I've opted for the Global/Shun first purchase is sharpness and price. Obviously, the Global is a lot cheaper than the Shun, so that is my preference, but I wanted to post here just in case there was there was something I was not aware of. I've tested both knives in stores and found them to be about the same in terms of sharpness.**

Regarding a sharpening steel, I don't really "get it" yet. I've seen posts saying that a pot lid or ceramic would do just as well as a steel. So why should I pay, say, $50 for a Shun steel instead of, say, $35 for a Henckel?

Thanks to all who can give an informed, thoughtful response to my questions. As I said, this forum is just great and I look forward to learning more from it.

David Levy
Washington, DC

*Key moment #1: When I came across the New Yorker article and thought, "Holy cr@p, this article is exactly what I've been curious about for years!"
**I tested them by shaving hair off my forearm and cutting cleanly through a wad of newspaper 56 sheets thick (28 pages folded over, cutting through the fold). For knives costing up to $75, only the Shun and Global were capable of passing these tests, in the two stores I visited. Key moment #2: When I walked into that 1st store and tested the Shun knife on my arm and it was literally as sharp as a razor. I thought, "This is incredible, the article was right! I had no idea knives could be this sharp!" (Needless to say, the salesman was not pleased to see me shaving my forearm with his demo knife. I was more discreet in the 2nd store...)

[richinva]

...... I've looked at--and lusted after--various knives recommended here: Tojiro, Masamoto, Suisin, Misono, etc., but the pricing was either prohibitive or similar to Shun/Global and they were not available locally for sharpness testing......

I don't have many good knives, but I do own a Tojiro DP 240 gyuto and a Shun parer. The Shun was really, really sharp and is a nice knife. It is in no way in the same league as sharpness goes to the Tojiro. Out of the box, the Tojiro was THE sharpest knife I've ever fondled. If at all possible, don't buy junk (not inferring that what you described is junk, just a generic statement). Wait until you have enough coin to get something good. You won't regret it. The Tojiro is less than $100.

Just my $.02.

Rich

[Mingooch]

IMHO, you can do better than either. A great starter is the Tojiro. Most here seem to put them ahead of either shun or global. Sharpening steel wise, would not even bother to get one. Get some stones or a leather strop and you most likely will be better off.
I know when I was "new" I bought a nice MAC ceramic steel. Since I bought my stones, it sits in my drawer, in the back, never used.
As far as other options, if you give a total spending limit, many here that know more than I do can make some great suggestions. Then, like me, you can be addicted. In a year and a half I went from newbie to ordering custom Hiro Itou wa gyutos. (cant wait for that knife to come in)

[expatCanuck]

...

I'm looking at a Shun Classic 6" utility knife ($75) vs. a Global 4 1/4" utility knife ($46). Any comments on one vs the other? (The differences in length are not an issue for me.)

Hi David -

Welcome to the forum.
For $75 ($73 delivered), as an intro to Japanese steel, I'd buy a 150mm JCK Kagayaki VG10 Petty (http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKIVG-10.html).
Or perhaps for $81 delivered, a 180mm JCK Kagayaki Basic gyuto (http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKI.html).
Just my opinion -- there are many valid options at the $75 price point.

...

Does it matter which sharpening steel I buy? They are not cheap! I've seen comments elsewhere in the forum that one doesn't even need a steel, one can just use a pot lid or ceramic plate.
Ummmm. No. No no no no no no.
Sharpening steels are not for use with Japanese knives.
And I wouldn't recommend spending money on a ceramic rod either.

Buy a 500 Beston stone (coarse) and a 1000 or 1200 Bester Stone (Medium).
Check the online videos, or buy Dave Martell's video (DRSharpening.com (http://DRSharpening.com)) or the Korin video and learn about stones & how to use them.
(And you don't need a stone holder -- a wet towel works fine (better, I think.)

IMHO, the ability to use stones properly (and I'm getting there, slowly) is as important to benefiting from Japanese steel as the blades are themselves.
That's not to say that I wasn't amazed at the difference between Japanese and German blades out of the box. I was.
But proper sharpening technique makes what's good even better.

- Richard

[FryBoy]

You might be happier with this:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/shlehasakn7.html

[expatCanuck]

You might be happier with this:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/shlehasakn7.htmlIs David (the OP) a southpaw? You've linked to a left-handed knife.

FWIW, my second Japanese knife was a Santoku, and I use it the least.
I've found that the wide blade hinders more than it helps.

- Richard

[FryBoy]

Is David (the OP) a southpaw? You've linked to a left-handed knife.

FWIW, my second Japanese knife was a Santoku, and I use it the least.
I've found that the wide blade hinders more than it helps.

- RichardStupid Google!

Here's the right-handed version, same price:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kesa6.html

[mongatu]

IMHO, you can do better than either. A great starter is the Tojiro. Most here seem to put them ahead of either shun or global. Sharpening steel wise, would not even bother to get one. Get some stones or a leather strop and you most likely will be better off.
. . . .

+1 ;)

and spend some time reading about and practicing how to sharpen with the stones. It's not very hard, imo, to learn to create edges that are much sharper than OOTB factory edges. And with J. knives, how sharp they are OOTB, is not very important, although it's nice when they come super sharp. But most people adjust the edges to suit their cutting style and intended uses for their knives anyway.

[boar_d_laze]

The little Shun and little Global you're interested in are decent knives as far as that goes. There are much better for the same price, but there's nothing particularly horrible about either one. Get into chef's knive, different story.

If you're making your first step into a quality knife, you're far better off buying a gyuto/chef's than a little "utility" knife. If you intend to use a "utility" as your go-to for everything, that also change -- at least if you want to develop productive knife skills. If you're worried that a big knife -- in the 10" range -- will be difficult to control, it does take some practice.

Finally, without recommending any specific stone, I urge you to consider the whole sharpening issue before going any farther.

No matter what other qualities a knife has, no knive is better than its edge. All knives get dull. Some of them take longer than others, but they all get dull -- and pretty quickly too if you use them much. The idea that having your knives sharpened professionally once a year, and using a steel between sharpening is enough is, to put it bluntly, wrong.

Any knife with fairly symmetric edge geometry, that isn't too "hard," can be profitably maintained on a rod hone (aka steel). The Global and Shun certainly can; as can just about any Japanese knife whose C hardness is 61 or less, and is no more asymmetric than 66/33.

There are some very good, relatively inexpensive steels. I particularly like the Idahone fine Ceramic, and have been hearing good things about the DMT CS2 -- which is also ceramic, an even finer grit, almost as inexpensive, theoretically "unbreakable," but needs a little work "ootb."

IMO, the Beston 500 is a terrible choice as a stand-alone stone. There are dozens of rocks which would make a better first choice for a beginner who chooses bench stones as the sharpening method.

BDL

[dglevy]

hi all,

thanks for the many thoughtful comments!

i'm going to set aside, for the moment, the question of how to sharpen the d@mn thing once i get it. i'm having a hard enough time trying to decide what knife i want to sharpen first! i was all set on buying the global, now you all have got me second guessing myself...

i'm pretty much set on getting a utility knife. i have a chef's knife and a santoku. i use them on occasion. maybe i would use a big knife more often if it was razor sharp. but that's a step for the future. there's no harm in starting out small and working up to the bigger (and more expensive) stuff, i think.


The little Shun and little Global you're interested in are decent knives as far as that goes. There are much better for the same price, but there's nothing particularly horrible about either one.


so far, i've gotten only one approval of Shun/Global and one "they're not absolutely atrocious". not exactly a ringing endorsement... so, let's look at the alternatives i've heard about so far.


IMHO, you can do better than either. A great starter is the Tojiro. Most here seem to put them ahead of either Shun or Global.<snip>


+1 ;)

<snip> And with J. knives, how sharp they are OOTB, is not very important, although it's nice when they come super sharp. But most people adjust the edges to suit their cutting style and intended uses for their knives anyway.


I don't have many good knives, but I do own a Tojiro DP 240 gyuto and a Shun parer. The Shun was really, really sharp and is a nice knife. It is in no way in the same league as sharpness goes to the Tojiro. Out of the box, the Tojiro was THE sharpest knife I've ever fondled. <snip>

i currently have ZERO skill as a knife sharpener, and i'd rather not wait to have that skill before i own a knife that i can shave with -- that's the level of sharpness i want. besides, no one has spoken out yet against Tojiro.

thus far, three people have recommended a Tojiro, one person recommended a JCK Kagayaki and one person, a Shun.

needless to say, i'm very intrigued by this Tojiro recommendation. is it possible that a Tojiro out of the box (OOTB) could be even sharper than the Shun and Global that i tested??? i can imagine it, although i haven't actually witnessed it yet. a sharpener's video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3oUlfxWK6c) mentions the differences in the quality of the cut through a wad of newspaper. so i suppose it's possible.

so, my questions for the mavens:

is there a significant difference in sharpness OOTB between, say, a Tojiro and a Shun/Global? (i'm trying to keep the cost below $75.)
will i be able to keep a knife at that level of sharpness without having to spend days (i.e. more than, say, 4 hours) practicing my sharpening skills?


as always, your thoughtful, well informed opinions are most appreciated. i'm so excited about this purchase i want the knife NOW. but i'm holding off b/c it's a lot of money (on my budget) for a little knife and i want it to be a careful choice.

--david

[thombrogan]

is there a significant difference in sharpness OOTB between, say, a Tojiro and a Shun/Global? (i'm trying to keep the cost below $75.)
will i be able to keep a knife at that level of sharpness without having to spend days (i.e. more than, say, 4 hours) practicing my sharpening skills?


I have yet to find a knife with a sharper factory edge than Tojiro. Not supposed to be impressed with the manufacturer's edge, but couldn't help it.

Learning sharpening so that your knife with shave armhair is easy. Learning how to do it without scratching the carp out of your brand new pride and joy high-end knife is quite difficult. Learning to say "well, it's for doing work, not for being some showcase item to be babied" is the difference between the two.

Go to www.japanesechefsknife.com/howtosharpen.html for a quick and easy way to learn knife sharpening. If you need more than an animated gif and a few paragraphs, but less than a three+ hour documentary, order "The Chef's Edge" from Korin. If the documentary is okay with you, order Murray Carter's "Introduction to Knife Sharpening."

[boar_d_laze]

I don't really disagree with Thom, but come to a few different conclusions and would like to offer some slightly different context, too.

The knife profile we're really talking about is something called a "petty" nowadays. The origin of the term is a little uncertain -- but despite the speculation it does not[ come from "petit gyuto," the Japanese call it a "petty naifu," etc. If that doesn't confuse you, I don't know what will. What it is, is a sort of conflated parer, short slicer and "utility knife," a stretched version of what the French call couteau office, which translate to "everyday knife." The idea, in a modern kit, is that a skilled cook has the point control to use it for very delicate work, but that it's long enough for a number of utility tasks -- like peeling large vegetables -- as well.

A petty fits within the context of the basic, modern, western, pro's four knife set: Chef's, slicer, petty, bread.

If what you're looking for is a "sandwich and tomato knife," save our money and get something cheap. If, on the other hand, you're looking for a companion to a good chef's, something short enough to handle the tasks a little awkward for a 10" knife chef's, but long enough to be generally useful -- than it might be worth spending a few bucks.

Within the context of that four knife set, the places to make the largest investment are on the chef's and the slicer. The chef's because it does 75% (at least) of the work. The slicer, because all it does is presentation (including portioning).

My advice, despite what you've already said, is to make your first quality knife a chef's. Of course, it's your money, your life, your knife, you have no obligation to buy the idea of the four knife basic kit, and you're a big boy -- so it's your decision.

You asked,
is there a significant difference in sharpness OOTB between, say, a Tojiro and a Shun/Global? (i'm trying to keep the cost below $75.) Shun and Global are marketed for western consumers and both are reliably and respectably sharp ootb. I don't know enough about Tojiros to make a good prediction, but do know enough about knives to tell you that however good the edge comes from the manufacturer, it's only going to stay that way for a few weeks at most. To my mind making a decision on the basis of "sharp ootb" is ridiculously short sighted.

I know your opinion going in was to delay dealing with sharpening and just get something that's going to delight you now, but you came to this site and asked. For better or ill, the more you know enough about knives the more aware you are of the sharpening interdynamic. And, the general level of knife knowledge here is enough to bring out the sharpeners in all of us.

Also, $75 is not a small amount to spend on a 6" knife, and there are number of excellent choices at or less than the price.

You also asked,
Will I be able to keep a knife at [Tojiro] level of sharpness without having to spend days (i.e. more than, say, 4 hours) practicing my sharpening skills? It takes longer than 4 hours practice to be able to reliably sharpen and put a little polish on an edge. More in the neighborhood of 15 to 20 hours. About 10 to learn to sharpen a decent ("sharp") edge, then another 5 to 10 to get consistent enough to refine and polish it to a good ("very sharp") edge. Extremely sharp is yet another thing. Additionally, while you can start out with a relatively inexpensive combination stone; a complete kit of good quality stones, not counting a steel, is going to run you at least (brace yourself) $150.

Another alternative is a "jig and tool," "rod-guide" type sharpener made by Edge Pro. You can learn to operate an Edge Pro Apex (the least expensive model), and do a better job than anything comes ootb, within 4 hours; but it isn't cheap. I've been freehanding for zillions of years, am reasonably good at it (I hope), don't own an Edge Pro; and still think it's probably the best choice for result-oriented people who want to maintain a superior edge on a high quality knife kit. It isn't cheap, you're going to end up spending around $200. Even so, other than for knife and sharpening hobbyists I'm no longer sure what the argument in favor of learing to freehand on bench stones is.

Then there's the one decent electric. A Chef's Choice electric will net you something pretty close to Shun ootb level sharpeness at an XTREME level of convenience, but they have some pretty severe limitations -- mostly in terms of versatility and longevity. Fortunately, despite the ignorant but popular myth in some knife circles, they won't destroy your knives.

Hope this helps,
BDL

[Newbflat]

A petty fits within the context of the basic, modern, western, pro's four knife set: Chef's, slicer, petty, bread.

If what you're looking for is a "sandwich and tomato knife," save our money and get something cheap. If, on the other hand, you're looking for a companion to a good chef's, something short enough to handle the tasks a little awkward for a 10" knife chef's, but long enough to be generally useful -- than it might be worth spending a few bucks.

Within the context of that four knife set, the places to make the largest investment are on the chef's and the slicer. The chef's because it does 75% (at least) of the work. The slicer, because all it does is presentation (including portioning).

My advice, despite what you've already said, is to make your first quality knife a chef's. Of course, it's your money, your life, your knife, you have no obligation to buy the idea of the four knife basic kit, and you're a big boy -- so it's your decision.

You asked, Shun and Global are marketed for western consumers and both are reliably and respectably sharp ootb. I don't know enough about Tojiros to make a good prediction, but do know enough about knives to tell you that however good the edge comes from the manufacturer, it's only going to stay that way for a few weeks at most. To my mind making a decision on the basis of "sharp ootb" is ridiculously short sighted.

I know your opinion going in was to delay dealing with sharpening and just get something that's going to delight you now, but you came to this site and asked. For better or ill, the more you know enough about knives the more aware you are of the sharpening interdynamic. And, the general level of knife knowledge here is enough to bring out the sharpeners in all of us.

Also, $75 is not a small amount to spend on a 6" knife, and there are number of excellent choices at or less than the price.

You also asked, It takes longer than 4 hours practice to be able to reliably sharpen and put a little polish on an edge. More in the neighborhood of 15 to 20 hours. About 10 to learn to sharpen a decent ("sharp") edge, then another 5 to 10 to get consistent enough to refine and polish it to a good ("very sharp") edge. Extremely sharp is yet another thing. Additionally, while you can start out with a relatively inexpensive combination stone; a complete kit of good quality stones, not counting a steel, is going to run you at least (brace yourself) $150.

Another alternative is a "jig and tool," "rod-guide" type sharpener made by Edge Pro. You can learn to operate an Edge Pro Apex (the least expensive model), and do a better job than anything comes ootb, within 4 hours; but it isn't cheap. I've been freehanding for zillions of years, am reasonably good at it (I hope), don't own an Edge Pro; and still think it's probably the best choice for result-oriented people who want to maintain a superior edge on a high quality knife kit. It isn't cheap, you're going to end up spending around $200. Even so, other than for knife and sharpening hobbyists I'm no longer sure what the argument in favor of learing to freehand on bench stones is.

Then there's the one decent electric. A Chef's Choice electric will net you something pretty close to Shun ootb level sharpeness at an XTREME level of convenience, but they have some pretty severe limitations -- mostly in terms of versatility and longevity. Fortunately, despite the ignorant but popular myth in some knife circles, they won't destroy your knives.

Hope this helps,
BDL

++1... what the man says!

[Seb]

Sounds like the term 'petty' or 'petite' was appropriated the same way the German term 'arbeiter' was.

[dglevy]

I have yet to find a knife with a sharper factory edge than Tojiro. Not supposed to be impressed with the manufacturer's edge, but couldn't help it. <snip>

now that makes four people who have spoken highly of the Tojiro.


If [...] you're looking for a companion to a good chef's, something short enough to handle the tasks a little awkward for a 10" knife chef's, but long enough to be generally useful -- then it might be worth spending a few bucks.....
....Also, $75 is not a small amount to spend on a 6" knife, and there are number of excellent choices at or less than the price.....
...It takes longer than 4 hours practice to be able to reliably sharpen and put a little polish on an edge. More in the neighborhood of 15 to 20 hours....a rod-guide type sharpener...isn't cheap, you're going to end up spending around $200....

thanks, BDL, for your long, thoughtful posts.

it was disheartening to see that it will be difficult to maintain the level of sharpness that i want. but i appreciate the information. i long ago learned to accept unpleasant truths. i don't know, at this point, whether i will be willing to put in the kind of time, effort and/or money to keep a literally razor sharp edge. we will see.

I'm sticking with a petty knife as my first purchase. I'm a bachelor who almost never cooks. I mostly just cut fruit and carrots. I use my current 127 mm utility knife 70% of the time, my santoku 20%, and my chef's knife 10%.. That may change in the future, if I get so enthusiastic about knives that I want to use them more often (more vegetables in my life would be a good thing, for example...). But I can always buy more knives in the future, if my usage changes.

thanks to all your input, i will shun the Shun--and the Global. A Tojiro DP Cobalt 120 mm Petty Knife (http://cgi.ebay.com/Japanese-TOJIRO-DP-Cobalt-Petty-Knife-120mm_W0QQitemZ230428962253QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item35a6a2edcd) can be had for only $46 including shipping. it's a "clad knife", so it will require some maintenance to avoid corrosion, but i don't mind that.

i figure, from the sound of it, the Tojiro is a good knife, in general. if it comes out of the box extra sharp, so much the better. it seems like a win-win situation to me.

any more comments on this as my choice of manufacturer? i feel like i've exercised due diligence on this purchase, but just wanted to make sure "all precincts have been heard from".

regarding how to keep the darn thing sharp, i will visit that question next -- AFTER i get my hot little hands on a knife that i can use by next week, hopefully!

thanks to everyone who has posted so far. it has been extremely helpful. as you can see, my attention has been turned from Shun/Global even though my mind was pretty much made up at the start...

--David

[thombrogan]

My only other attempt at a thought would be for you to get some wet/dry sandpaper. 600 grit or 1,000 grit would be fine if you pardon the pun. Sometimes the wood and steel on the handles aren't 100% flush, so very light sanding with fine sandpaper will right most wrongs without leaving unseemly scratches on the otherwise pristine handle. The same sandpaper can also be used to smooth the spine on your knife if you ever happen to put any fingers on that part. edited to add And that little bit of sanding; which can be an expected task with most high-performance Japanese brands; is my comment.

It can even be used to resharpen your knife, but sandpaper tends to wear out too quickly to a cost-effective sharpening method.

[Newbflat]

The Tojiro DP cobalt will take no more care than any other stainless knife... both the edge and cladding are stainless.

If there is one thing you should learn to do, its sharpen. Its not hard to learn and to get a reasonably good edge on a knife with a little practices. It takes a lot of practices to get a stellar edge but most people a very happy with a good sharp edge that is easily attainable. Any knife with a sharp edge will be more enjoyable to use than your new Tojiro when its dull in a month or two..... Learning basic sharpening is something you will never regret and will serve you very well for the rest of your life. It will make all your knives like /better than new again.

[mongatu]

I think the choice of a Tojiro is perfect. However, I think the choice of a petty is a poor knife style to start out with, but each to their own. I use a Chef's knife (gyuto) 99% of the time. You should learn to use one too, imo. And that's what you should buy. You could start with a short one, which would still be better than getting a petty. So even a 210 mm Tojiro DP gyuto which would cost less than $100, would be a much better knife to start with, although most would recommend a 240 mm length. But a 210 is about 8 inches long and is perfectly suitable for the occasional cook. I might even use a 210 as my "travel" knife.

Second, although I agree with most of what BDL had to say above, I disagree slightly about how hard it is to learn sharpening. I do agree with what Thom had to say in that regard. It is very easy for anyone who is intelligent, motivated and mildly coordinated to learn to put an edge on that is at least equal to a good factory edge in everything except cosmetics and uniformity. But it will be sharp and will cut fine. No matter what knife you get, it will be dull within a month or two, perhaps longer if used rarely, or faster if used daily.

So if you want to enjoy sharp knives you simply have to learn how to sharpen. There is no way around it. Even a machine like an edge pro has a learning curve.

I would say most would need about 4 to 8 hours of reading (online) and viewing videos (some good ones also can be found online) to understand what they are supposed to be doing, and 6 to 12 hours of practicing by sharpening knives. (That time could be reduced by having someone teach you in person.) And that should be sufficient to get you to the point of being able to make your knives sharp enough to keep you very happy, although as Thom said, they will probably be scratched up and not so pretty looking. But that's not really important, imo, unless you are trying to sharpen other peoples knives for money.

[thombrogan]

I'm proof that you don't even need to be coordinated to get a really sharp edge.

[willspear]

I am uncoordinated in the worst way and usually not all that sober when I sharpen


seriously practice and it pays dividends

[mr moto]

now that makes four people who have spoken highly of the Tojiro........

I'll make it five. I have knives a lot more expensive than the Tojiro, but the DP gets used as much as any of them.




Tojiro DP Cobalt 120 mm Petty Knife[/URL] can be had for only $46 including shipping. it's a "clad knife", so it will require some maintenance to avoid corrosion, but i don't mind that.


That's not true. It is clad, but it's all stainless steel, and requires no maintenance other than sharpening.

The best thing about Japanese knives isn't how sharp they are out of the box, but how sharp they will become with repeated sharpening.

Good luck!

[thombrogan]

The best thing about Japanese knives isn't how sharp they are out of the box, but how sharp they will become with repeated sharpening.

That's some gospel that can't be repeated enough.

[ChrisLehrer]

David,

Let me just chime in on the "but you must learn to sharpen" front. It's true, you must. But something I notice in your post is a strong -- and extremely common in a new enthusiast -- fear of sharpening. Maybe it seems like a big mountain to climb, and you're not ready. Maybe you're afraid you'll screw up your beautiful new knife. Whatever. These things come up again and again.

Okay, so I'm going to assume, based on your posts and some basic human averages, that you're intelligent, you read and like to read with some care, and that you are not so uncoordinated that you are incapable of playing the occasional video game or driving a car. Good -- you can learn to sharpen admirably, and get a great deal of pleasure out of it. It won't take long to learn, and once you have learned you will find that sharpening takes perhaps 10 minutes per knife -- less with that little petty, because there's not much metal.

I would recommend that you purchase a King 1000 stone, which is very cheap and a fabulous starter stone. Also get a piece of medium-grit wet/dry sandpaper, lay it flat on a flat surface, and rub the main surface of the stone on it irregularly until it's all a sort of even dusty pink. (Stones don't always come quite flat, though King is good on this.) If you take it easy and don't apply lots of pressure, that King won't dish especially fast, and so you won't need to flatten more than every 5-10 times you sharpen, which will be a while.

Next question: what are the santoku and chef's that you don't use much? I'm wondering if we can coach you through basic sharpening with that santoku, for example, so you don't have to take the plunge with your new petty. Not that you can't start right in there -- you should, actually -- but I realize you may be leery. But some knives are irritatingly difficult to sharpen, and that's not a great place to start either.

In any event, remember this: respectable sharpening is easy and quick. No knife you purchase can go long without it, and you will get a lot of satisfaction out of the process once you learn how.

[Newbflat]

Pay attention to "boar d laze" and "ChrisLehrer"..... there pretty smart on there own, but combined i might go so far as as to say there Really smart.. yep, that smart! And that's about as good as it gets on this forum.....:rolleyes:

God forbid KC shoes up.:eek: .. if he does. Take everything he says and remember it as it will serve you well... but believe nothing he says. If you stick around here long enough you know what i mean.:D

[bob13bob]

shun and global are both overpriced compared to some of the great knives on here. We are used to sharpness levels much higher than even factory edges on a tojiro dp, which in turn is much sharper than shun or global levels.

If you were to only have one j-knife, make it a 240mm gyuto (chef's knife), this is the most recommended size for a general use knife by those who know (on these forums the level of knowledge is order of magnitudes higher than CI or newspaper articles) it sounds big but you do need the extra length for a lot of things (slicing protein thin). In fact, many on here like the even longer 270mm over 240m.

i'd look in to tojiro dp 240mm. they are less than $100 shipped on ebay. other options are togiharu knives, good budget ones, they are around $70.


do not get a honing rod. use the edge of a pryex dish (like a rectangular one). it performs better and does't take up extra space or cash.

do get some sharpening stones. You're gona wanna sharpen all your other knives once you feel a sharp knife for the first time, so u need a way to get them up to speed.

I have dmt xxc, beston 500, bester 1200, suehiro 5k, strop


If i were doing it again, I'd go belt sand paper on flat plate or belt sander itself with two grits. bester 1200 or king 1200, and strop. In the beginning your lowest grit will be yoru most important, since most of your knives will use it hte longest.


Or you can go with a combo stone, altough the low grits on those tend to be not so great. i'd prefer some belt sand paper over them.

[dglevy]

hi all,

just to let you know, i've been preoccupied with (paying) work and now DC has been hit by two major snow storms. so, needless to say, i'm kind of preoccupied with things like staying warm and fed. (the electricity was out for 3 1/2 days and will probably go out again with today's storm...) i have ordered the tojiro DP knife i mentioned but it will take 2-5 weeks (2-5 WEEKS, what a rip-off!) to get here. in the meantime, when things settle down, i will go through everyone's posts again and pursue next steps regarding sharpening...

thanks to everyone who posted thoughtful replies.

david