Stainless Sabatier, Y or N?

[John Shea]

This is my first inquiry to the group. I am a home cook and I wish to acquire a longer knife for slicing raw and cooked meats. The most cutting in one session for me would be about 10 lbs potatoes, 5 lbs carrots, 2 lbs onions, 10 lb ham or 18 lb turkey. I frequently cut raw boneless beef roasts into whole steaks or shread beef for making subs for my family. I strop between knife uses and use water stones when needed. My longest knives are currently an 8" LC Germaine chef's knife (made in Japan) and a 25 year old 240 mm yanagiba of unknown make (can't read kangi). I also have a 25 year old deba and usuba. I have a German petty and paring knife and a Shun Steel bread knife. My cheap 8" chef's knife gets reasonably sharp and cuts suprising well. I have never used a western style j-knife such as a gyuto or sujibiki.

I have an opportunity to buy a TI **** elephant 12" stainless slicer for $ 49.99, a 14" cook's knife for $ 79.99, a 12" cook's knife for $ 69.99, or a 10" cook's knife for $ 59.99 from a discount salvage cooking supply store. Unfortunately, there are no carbon Sabatier. I really would like a 270 or 300 mm Masamoto gyuto which would cost a lot more $.

Should I acquire a French knife at the prices offered, or wait until I have the $ for what I really want? Should I acquire a similar low cost j-knife in lieu of the Sabatier? I keep thinking that $ 49.99 is not so much $ to try out the French experience, or am I suffering from KAI (knife acquisition insanity)? :)

[kappadonna]

This is my first inquiry to the group. I am a home cook and I wish to acquire a longer knife for slicing raw and cooked meats. The most cutting in one session for me would be about 10 lbs potatoes, 5 lbs carrots, 2 lbs onions, 10 lb ham or 18 lb turkey. I frequently cut raw boneless beef roasts into whole steaks or shread beef for making subs for my family. I strop between knife uses and use water stones when needed. My longest knives are currently an 8" LC Germaine chef's knife (made in Japan) and a 25 year old 240 mm yanagiba of unknown make (can't read kangi). I also have a 25 year old deba and usuba. I have a German petty and paring knife and a Shun Steel bread knife. My cheap 8" chef's knife gets reasonably sharp and cuts suprising well. I have never used a western style j-knife such as a gyuto or sujibiki.

I have an opportunity to buy a TI **** elephant 12" stainless slicer for $ 49.99, a 14" cook's knife for $ 79.99, a 12" cook's knife for $ 69.99, or a 10" cook's knife for $ 59.99 from a discount salvage cooking supply store. Unfortunately, there are no carbon Sabatier. I really would like a 270 or 300 mm Masamoto gyuto which would cost a lot more $.

Should I acquire a French knife at the prices offered, or wait until I have the $ for what I really want? Should I acquire a similar low cost j-knife in lieu of the Sabatier? I keep thinking that $ 49.99 is not so much $ to try out the French experience, or am I suffering from KAI (knife acquisition insanity)? :)

Wait for what you really want.

As much as I love, and i mean LOVE, Sabatier (vintage) Carbon, the SS they use is not the best.

[kappadonna]

I should also state that you can get Sabatier Nogent vintage carbon for around $100 through thebestthings.

[leslie/dlj]

I like my 45 year old carbon 8" Sabatier cook's more than any other knife I own. It slices and shaves meats very well.

[boar_d_laze]

Most Sabatiers use a stainless alloy which is very similar to the X50CrMoV15 used in German knives, only not as well hardened. On that basis, it's hard to recommend them -- even at the price, it's an "N."

If you can live with carbon, Sabatiers are very much worth consideration. The Nogents (http://www.thebestthings.com/knives/sabatier_nogent.htm) (marketed by Thiers Issard through The Best Things) are brilliant performers and have quite a history as well. But the current value leader is K-Sabatier (http://www.sabatier-shop.com/kitchen-knives_15_au-carbone-vintage_.html).

Also, for most people the 12" and 14" length chef's knives are special purpose. But the prices... such a deal! If you need something for splitting chickens and portioning spare rips, you might want to consider one. The most important edge characteristic for those sorts of uses is toughness, which the French stainless has in abundance. You'll need to sharpen them fairly frequently -- especially considering how seldom they get used -- but who cares? They're seldom used.

BDL

[willspear]

oldie sabatier carbons rock the stainless are junk imo

[Seb]

I should get one of these direct from K-Sab now that the Euro is getting its behind kicked by the Aussie.

[John Shea]

Thanks for all of your advice. I did not previously indicate that I can pick up one of the stainless Sabs locally and avoid S&H charges, but would still have to pay the MA sales tax. The carbon K-Sab prices are very attractive, but not the 20 euro S&H. The TBT prices for the antique carbon nogent Sabs are good and the S&H more reasonable.

I may indulge my KAI (knife acquisition insanity) with the $ 49.99 stainless 12" slicer Sab hoping to temper my lust by playing with the new toy until I have saved the necessary $ for a 270 or 300 mm Masamoto gyuto. Even if the stainless Sabs are not the best steel available, $ 49.99 is practically a department store knife price. I could get the knife I really want later and perhaps donate the Sab to a family member who has no good knives and may learn to appreciate a sharp reasonably good knife. I am assuming that the steel of the stainless Sabs is OK, if not the best reasonably available, and is superior to the steel of most department store knives.

PS: Good news! my vendor has just called indicating that he has a carbon 12" **** elephant Sab slicer. Problem solved. Thanks to all.

[Market Nomad]

At those prices, I would go for it. They may not be Japanese super blades but if you sharpen them, they will still get the job done without problem.

[Fred]

I agree with Nomad. The Sabatier knives are no better or worse than the famous German brands. While they won't perform with Japanese cutlery they will perform well and get the job done. Sounds like great prices to me too.

[mattias504]

Carbon. These is almost no reason to own a stainless Sabatier.

[jmck]

Twenty years ago I gave a woman I was dating a stainless Sabatier 9" chef as a present. Later on I married her and so the knife is now mine as well (actually moreso.) It's a nice knife, very sharp, but compared to current j-knives it is, to me, just overly heavy duty. So it doesn't get much use.

IMO the number of reasons to buy a stainless Sab is zero.

[doug8066]

No, no, my friend.

BUY JAPANESE !!!!!

I've been down this track myself, with a Sabatier & a Wusthorf. Total frustration !!!!! Could not get them sharp, new or re sharpened by me.


!!!!! THEN - I discovered the Japanese kitchen knives. So sharp, so light, so thin, such hard steel!!

I have thrown out (yes honest - into the dumpbin) my Sabatier and Wusthorf.

Now I have a "stable" of all Japanese kitchen knives. Wonderful. Razor Sharp. Mmmm

Join the OCD crowd here, and buy Japanese. Try Japanesechefskinifedotcom. Great website. Superb service.

Happy hunting

[Seb]

[...] I am a home cook and I wish to acquire a longer knife for slicing raw and cooked meats. [...]

This is the ultimate in value and functionality:

http://japan-blades.com/chef-knives/1757.html

http://japan-blades.com/wp-content/uploads/m-17-3.jpg


And, oh, it's carbon by the way.

[John Shea]

Thank you all for your advice. I decided to go for the cheap price and instant gratification (or disappointment) and try out the Sabs for myself while saving $ for a Masamoto. I have not figured out using pictures at this point but will try to do so in the future. So far, I have observed as follows:

TI Elephant Sab. 12” cook’s knife, stainless, red stamina handle, SB6030/M32130V, comes in a white box with the blade in a cardboard sleave. I have no complaints about F&F. The blade is 305 mm long, 60 mm high between spine and edge at the choil, 5mm thick at the choil tapering uniformly long its length until the point. It weighs 13.5 oz. (385 g) and feels hefty in hand like a deba. The blade is not flexible. As a comparison my well used cheap stamped 8” (200 mm) LC Germaine chef’s knife weighs 6.4 oz. (181 g) and is 2 mm thick at the spine maintaining this thickness from the choil almost until its point.

The Sab. 12” chef should acquit itself admirably on large squashes, water melon, ribs, and perhaps any brigands encountered while preparing one’s morning omelette. I suspect that I will be looking more seriously toward the 270 mm Masamoto rather than a 300 mm gyuto in the future.

For another comparison, my 25 year old 180 mm deba is 8 mm thick at the spine tapering to a thickness of 4 mm where the shinogi intersects the spine, 12.4 oz. (351 g).

TI Elephant Sab. 12” slicer (tranchelard), carbon, black nylon handle, SB2430/M4630C, comes in a red box with the blade wrapped in tissue paper. The blade has a thin layer of dry grease and is 305 mm long, 32 mm high between edge and spine at the choil, and 2.5 mm thick at the choil. Blade width rapidly tapers and is very thin at the spine. This blade is very flexible. The knife weighs 5.6 oz. (158 g) and feels handy. I have no complaints about F&F and think that I will like this knife a lot.

The 12 " slicer was not very sharp as received, but became sharp enough to slice paper with stropping. I believe that it will become much sharper after I set up the bevel and rehone. The chef’s knife was dull as received and did not improve with honing. It would not cut paper at all out of the box and after an attempt to sharpen with honing. It clearly needs time on the stones. I did not expect significant out of the box knife sharpness and I am not dissapointed that it was not sharp OOTB. I am reporting OOTB sharpness only because it is a frequently point of forum discussion. I will report again after I have sharpened these knives properly and used them to cut food.