Angle for steeling knives?

[Jfs]

I am interested in what angle to steel knives at. If a knife is sharpened with asymmetrical bevel angles like 70/30 or if an edge has a single micro bevel, eg. bevel at 10* and micro at 20*. I'm not sure if this matters or do I just steel the knife at the largest angle.

Thanks

[Fred]

It doesn't matter. Proper steeling removes no metal. It just straightens the edge.

[Keith]

I am interested in what angle to steel knives at. If a knife is sharpened with asymmetrical bevel angles like 70/30 or if an edge has a single micro bevel, eg. bevel at 10* and micro at 20*. I'm not sure if this matters or do I just steel the knife at the largest angle.

Thanks

Yes steel at your largest angle,but not much more.A common mistake wt. steeling is going at too steep of an angle a steel is not for creating new bevels,you do that on your stones.You can screw up your edge wt. incorrect steeling.Esp. if you have quality knives stay away from diamond & coarse grain steels.Polishing steels & fine ceramics will staighten your edge & extend your cutting session.

[boar_d_laze]

Steel at the bevel angle. Fred is mistaken when he says the angle doesn't matter. Too acute an angle won't true the edge. Too obtuse will create unnecessary metal fatigue along the bend. Use very few and very gentle strokes.

BDL

[scubadoo97]

+1. Totally agree

[Benuser]

Do you really need steeling? In most cases a few stropping (edge trailing) strokes on the finest stone will give much better results. Traditional steeling will fatigue steel. Once you sharpened a steeled blade you will know: it feels like butter. I'm aware that in a pro environment you won't have any choice: use the finest ceramic you may find, with the lightest touch.

[boar_d_laze]

Do you really need steeling? In most cases a few stropping (edge trailing) strokes on the finest stone will give much better results. Traditional steeling will fatigue steel. Once you sharpened a steeled blade you will know: it feels like butter. I'm aware that in a pro environment you won't have any choice: use the finest ceramic you may find, with the lightest touch.

Stropping doesn't cause less fatigue than appropriate steeling. Why would it? They both bend the edge back to it's correct, true geometry.

Stropping spreads the force along the edge more evenly, while steeling concentrates it at a very small contact point. Thus, if the alloy is prone to tearing or breaking (both of which equate to "chips easily") because its very hard, and/or the edge is very asymmetric, stropping is a more gentle way of going about truing. It's less efficient though.

If the knife can take it, steeling is faster and easier. The big trick with steeling is doing it correctly (very gentle, very few strokes, correct angle), which almost no one does. Those buttery edges you're talking were steeled with too many strokes, too much force, at a too obtuse angle, or more likely, some combination of all three.

Steeling or stropping -- there's only so many times you can go to the truing well. At some point, the alloy will gradually fatigue along the "bend line," to the point where the old edge becomes an unusable burr, and the knife will need to be sharpened.

FWIW, I strop my Konosukes on the rare occasions they need truing, and steel my Sabs and Forschners on a comparatively frequent basis.

BDL

[Keith]

Well said on all points,its true most people haven't a clue on how to steel correctly.

[rhinoknives1]

After sharpening knives for new people "Home Cooks" we talk about using a butchers steel to maintain the edges.

BDL's comment about a few light strokes is correct and I recommend that people do it when they are done cooking and the knife has been cleaned.
They will be warmed up and get a more consistent angle. Just three light strokes on each side with a smooth or fine Diamond or ceramic steel at the bevel angle will true the edge and they will be ready for the next days cooking.

If your Steel has those long lines in it 80-150 grit? Have someone polish it to at least 600 grit. otherwise you will be tearing up the sharpening job you just put on it.

Those heavy lines are a hold over from 100 years ago or so in Europe when Heat treating wasn't as high and consistent and you could tear little pieces of steel out to bring back a crude edge.

Take a Modern Knife of quality European, American or Japanese and watch closely as you lightly slide it down a smooth steel.
You can see the flex in the cutting edge. in knife making we use this to test the HT quality of a knife you have just made & Heat treated. It's referred to as the Brass rod test. Yes you can straighten a knife edge on a 1/4 3/16" piece of smooth brass.

Cheers.
Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com/

[BreadFan]

okay, as you seem to possess more than the average bear's degree of common sense knowledge . . . .

can we address the "steeling does not remove metal" debate?

okay, okay, it's a slightly technical / "part of a gnat's butt" type of thing -

but -

I've got a grooved steel.
(also a pebbled steel and a glass rod, but . . . I'm not counting)

using the grooved steel on a Wuestie knife _does_ produce dark stuff when wiped with a white paper towel.

using the EdgePro supplied white ceramic "steel" there are dark marks where the knife rubbed on the steel - what makes these dark marks?

so - is the purpose of steeling to straighten out any potholes on the edge?
yes.

does steeling remove metal?
yes.

not a lot, but it does.

a glass rod, pretty much none.
ceramic, more metal wear.
pebbled/striated/grooved - more metal removed.

frankly, as a glass rod removes near nothing (only the fatigued bits that break off on their own) - just bends things back and forth, seems to me that kind of "alignment" promotes damages from "edge fatigue" a whole lot faster that the other options.

then again, I am not an expert knife maker / sharpener.
I only observe "results" of things I do; and , , , cease to do.