Almost all bussiness accounts have some fee's. I wouldn't let $6-$10.00 a month stop me from selling on ebay. You pass it on to the end consumer. Paypal has it's quirks. It's still a excellent way to receive & Send money around the world.
Amazon will/has it's own set of issues! If your product doesn't have a UPC you cannot sell it on there for one.
Laurence
www.rhinoknives.com/
>>This is why I have one dedicated bank account for Paypal only. The instant I have money in my Paypal account I transfer it to my bank account, and immediately transfer that balance to a bank account for which Paypal has no access.
knock-knock. voice of experience speaking here . . . .
if "your other" bank account is in anyway linked to the the first account, you're fooling yo-self.
PayPal will pursue any accounted linked to their theory of a zero balance account and abscond with the money.
"un-linking" does not work. anything that once exists electronically is never "deleted" - only suppressed from your view.
open a new account with no links to anything.
when the PayPal proceeds land there, withdraw the proceeds _in cash_ and take it somewhere else.
if any of the accounts have an address, telephone number, IP address, email address or SSAN in common, PayPal _will_ go forth and steal your money.
The other account was never linked to Paypal. Sorry, but I don't think you know what you're talking about. ;-)
John in Boise
I believe it's a cook's moral obligation to add more butter given the chance.~~~Michael Ruhlman
>>I don't think you know what you're talking about.
I had PayPal linked to a business account.
I closed that account and had the bank transfer the balance to my personal account.
PayPal fees came in, and got deducted from my personal account. whether that happened as a function of the bank or of PayPal does not matter - the money is "gone."
in another event - eBay/PayPal requires "proof of delivery" in the event of a dispute. shipped an item to a buyer using Fedex, direct signature required (that means somebody _at that address_) has to sign for it. the buyer told PayPal that was not his signature and demanded his money back. eBay/PayPal wanted me to be a sport and send the buyer several hundred dollars worth of replacement product. apparently one has to send it with proof of delivery, and a notary public in tow to prove whoever signs for the package is really someone at that address, and an armed guard to ensure the packages does not go missing after delivery until the real buyer takes custody. it took a lawyer to get that set right.
in another event - both my personal and business eBay and PayPal accounts were mysteriously "suspended" - no reason given - just violating some unspecified policy. after _two years_ of debate, turns out an acquaintance who did have issues with eBay/PayPal was visiting my home and used my IP connection. eBay/PayPal assumed guilt by association and not only suspended his account (for reasons I have no knowledge of....) but also my personal and business account because those accounts had logged on using the same IP address.
in yet another event - when I moved I got a new local area cell phone. kept my old cell phone for about a year in transition. when I dropped the old phone, updated my eBay/PayPal profiles with my new phone, both accounts were immediately suspended because whoever previously had my new cell number apparently also had issues with eBay/PayPal.
so I may not know what I'm talking about, but I do know what happened.
>>I don't think you know what you're talking about.Originally Posted by BreadFan
Well, clearly I could have worded that more diplomatically, and for that I aplogize.
I had PayPal linked to a business account.
I closed that account and had the bank transfer the balance to my personal account.
PayPal fees came in, and got deducted from my personal account. whether that happened as a function of the bank or of PayPal does not matter - the money is "gone."
Believe me, I have no doubt that Paypal will do anything to get your money, ethical or not, but If I brought a check from you to me to your bank and the account was closed, would your bank say....hey, no problem, we'll just take it out of one of his other accounts???? It appears to me that this is a banking problem rather than a Paypal problem. shrug
in another event - eBay/PayPal requires "proof of delivery" in the event of a dispute. shipped an item to a buyer using Fedex, direct signature required (that means somebody _at that address_) has to sign for it. the buyer told PayPal that was not his signature and demanded his money back. eBay/PayPal wanted me to be a sport and send the buyer several hundred dollars worth of replacement product. apparently one has to send it with proof of delivery, and a notary public in tow to prove whoever signs for the package is really someone at that address, and an armed guard to ensure the packages does not go missing after delivery until the real buyer takes custody. it took a lawyer to get that set right.
Again, unethical actions by Paypal and a clueless FedEx, but not related to taking money from your bank accounts.
in another event - both my personal and business eBay and PayPal accounts were mysteriously "suspended" - no reason given - just violating some unspecified policy. after _two years_ of debate, turns out an acquaintance who did have issues with eBay/PayPal was visiting my home and used my IP connection. eBay/PayPal assumed guilt by association and not only suspended his account (for reasons I have no knowledge of....) but also my personal and business account because those accounts had logged on using the same IP address.
Paypal/ebay can suspend your account for whatever they deem violates their rules, however unethical or draconian, but it doesn't mean they can take money from a separate bank account with simply an IP address.
in yet another event - when I moved I got a new local area cell phone. kept my old cell phone for about a year in transition. when I dropped the old phone, updated my eBay/PayPal profiles with my new phone, both accounts were immediately suspended because whoever previously had my new cell number apparently also had issues with eBay/PayPal.
Jesus, sounds to me like you were born under an evil ebay/Paypal star, but again this experience doesn't mean they can use your phone number to withdraw money from your bank account.
so I may not know what I'm talking about, but I do know what happened.
Of course you do and I'm sorry if I inadvertently implied that you're making it up or don't know what happened in your own affairs. I believe almost anything negative said about ebay/Paypal, which is why I seldom use them these days, and never for anything like large sums of money. I simply am not of the opinion that your experiences indicate that Paypal can use these individual bits of info to steal money from your bank accounts. Paypal is unethical, arbitrary, and perhaps in violation of the law (I'm surprised that they haven't already been involved in class action suits).... but they aren't magicians.
I have personally never had any problem with Paypal that couldn't be corrected with a few minutes on the phone, but I don't trust the bastards even a little bit. Good luck with your future transactions. ;-)
John in Boise
I believe it's a cook's moral obligation to add more butter given the chance.~~~Michael Ruhlman
>>diplomatically . . .
nadda problem, no offense taken.
when I closed my business account I took some pains to ensure fees were directed to my PayPal credit card.
as you can surmise, that didn't happen. somewhere in PayPal's pea-brain I'm sure I'm at fault.
the PayPal credit card has multiple other horror stories associated with it.
since 1975 I've been doing electronic payments - not in the same form . . . .
up until semi-recently, PayPal MasterCard _did not_ accept electronic payments! (ala CheckFree)
now think about this...."the world's premier payment system....." does not accept electronic payments - CheckFree had to print out and mail PayPal a paper check.
after 3 sequential months of being hit with late fees and sending them my bank statements showing the d*mn CheckFree paper check cleared my bank 2-3 days before the payment due date, I dumped/closed their MasterCard account.
and a couple thousand hours on the phone trying to find intelligent life at PayPal.....
>>didn't take money out of your account . . .
au contraire - when the buyer decided it was not his signature - some weeks later - they "reversed" the payment to me and did in fact pull money out of the linked account. proof of delivery was evident, PayPal, _direct quote_ asked me to "be a sport" and send the fraudster replacement product. eBay/PayPal rules, at least at that time, did not require a notary seal to identify the recipient, that's when I turned it over to the lawyers.
and fraudster abound not only on PayPal. we've had customers buy, sign for, etc & yadda yadda - then dispute their MasterCard/Visa/debit card charges as "fraud" - close the account, and guess who does not get paid? the merchant.
MasterCard/Visa/Discover...? their response...? sorry, they closed the account we can't do anything about it.
all this cr*p about how much money banks lose to credit card fraud . . . don't believe a word of it.
the banks don't lose a cent, the merchant gets the full shaft _and then some_ because the credit card processors up their fees for "problematic" merchants.
to blunt the point, same applies to US currency. if a merchant accepts a counterfeit bill - when that bill is found at the bank, the merchant loses . . . . don't ask; that's another rant . . . .
>>but it doesn't mean they can take money from a separate bank account with simply an IP address.
don't know about the "separate bank account" bit - but yes, they suspended my eBay accounts and froze my PayPal account. there wasn't much money in there - less than $10, but they intended to keep it forever since some bad actor used my IP.
they don't use an "ask first, shoot later" approach - eBay/PayPal uses "first option: deadly force, don't even ask, sooner, later or ever."
if you think "learning" any of this kind of stuff out of eBay/PayPal is easy, no - that's not the case. actually, it's quite impossible. if I called, everyone I could find/request/demand to speak with was dumber than a post.
only when the lawyers start with the phone calls do those entities decide to share "why" one is suspended or what the problem is.
we still use PayPal for international payments - which I really don't like - because "proof of delivery" is much more difficult in international trade - but that's another rant.
eBay's business model methinks is outdated, over-priced, done and toasted for the small business / individual needs.
when the eBay / PayPal fees amount to 30% + of the selling price, that's no longer a viable sales channel, at least for us.
Well, I couldn't agree more about Paypal, ebay , cc companies...big business in general. ebay started going down the tubes for sellers when that idiot Meg Whitman took over, and then her clone, John Donahoe, made it even worse. Almost impossible for the tiny guy who makes a few extra side bucks from yard sales stuff and cleaning out the garage. Besides that....in the beginning it was....FUN! I can't even list the profit on what was to me....old junk. And I found so many odd, collectibles for peanuts over the years. Now the exorbitant fees are killers for the small guy. Why do you think ebay bought Paypal. Because their own on line payment service sucked so badly they couldn't keep it afloat. <g>
Oh, well ...spilled milk. The world we live in. I haven't sold anything on ebay in around 5 years and I buy maybe six items a year these days. Clearly they live without my contributions. ;-)
John in Boise
I believe it's a cook's moral obligation to add more butter given the chance.~~~Michael Ruhlman
I've had no problems paying for purchases through PayPal -- but I ALWAYS change the source of funds from my bank account to M/C or AmEx. Any problem and I then have the added protection of the credit card company to do battle with PP.
Excellent point. But...I got rid of my credit cards 15 years ago and I haven't had one since. If I buy something...I have the money. Tho' it's Visa, I don't know that a debit card has the same protections as a credit card.
John in Boise
I believe it's a cook's moral obligation to add more butter given the chance.~~~Michael Ruhlman
Credit cards have certain protections under federal law, such as a $50 limit on liability for lost or stolen cards. Debit cards, not so much, and they can be used to drain the bank account to which they're linked. Banks claim to offer protections, but that's hardly the same as legal protections. I refuse to have a debit card for that reason.
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