Need help selecting my next japanese waterstone

[aki]

Hi all,

I'm looking to expand my japanese waterstone selection with a finer stone. Especially since I fairly recently got a Mac Pro 8 inch chef knife and a Tojiro DP 10 inch chef knife.

I got a KING 1000 that I start off with and then a KING 4000 that I use to polish the edge. I use a Norton flattening stone to flatten.

I would like to get one more stone that's finer than the 4000... so maybe a 6000 or an 8000? Not sure what grit size would make most sense.
I don't care that much about a mirror finish but from what I understand my Japanese knifes could potentially get sharper if I would add another stone to my kit.
I normally strop a bit on newspaper as a final step after deburring on the KING 4000.

Also, a final question - Anyone on the forum from the UK that could recommend a good place to buy stones? It's a bit hard to find here.

Many Thanks,
Aki

[Benuser]

I don't think a finer stone will contribute to better edges with the steel types you use. Even 4k is relatively high with those stainless. I use a Chosera 2k as one and only and strop on split leather.
For stones in Europe, www.edenwebshops.co.uk

[Soen]

I agree Benuser, getting a higher grit stone isn't really going to yield significant results. The biggest performance change will be perfecting your technique and in theory changing to carbon knives. However that said if you where set on getting a stone there is little point is going for 6K or 8K from 4K because the progression between stones i,e the difference between a 600 and 1000 is quite massive, between a 1000 and a 2000 not so much, and a 3000 and 6000 even less. In which case you would want to get a high grit stone like a 10K or above. But again I emphasis that you might not see an benefit and may see a distinct loss in slicing performance as you reduce micro serration density along the edge.

As for shops, Eden stores are o.K

Fine tools are in Europe and so you avoid duty but the postage is a little more heavy. But the stone selection is very good. If you want shapton's ore bester's

http://www.fine-tools.com/scharf.html

for Kings go to workshop heaven

http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/...terstones.html

basically looking at your choices it would be the chosera SS 12K, which is a good stone, but imo I would save your money and if anything buy a course stone.

[boar_d_laze]

The difference in edge quality you're going to get going from a medium-high like your King 4K to a true polishing stone (some 6K, all 8Ks and above) is not really a difference in sharpness but in refinement, slipperiness, and shine. There is a performance bonus, but it won't hold up very long on either the MAC or Tojiro -- and certainly not past the first time you steel. But it's not going to hurt anything either.

I like the Arashiyama/Takenoko 6K; as a very fast stone and a lot of bang for the buck. It's fast enough that you may want to just go straight from your 1K.

The Suehiro Rika, at 5K, is another thought. Again you'd use it to replace the 4K, for a different edge.

The 8K Naniwa Snow white is excellent. So is the 8K Kitayama. Used one after the other -- in either order -- they're incredible. The best polish I've ever got is with the Gesshin 8K. Incredibly good and very expensive.

The Chosera 10K is quite fast and good; but it's more expensive than the Gesshin and I prefer the Gesshin regardless of price.

I hear the 10K "generic" magnesias are very good. They might be your best price/performance, value option. The high grit Ice Bears used to be very good and a huge bang for the buck, but I don't know if they're still around.

The 8K Norton is kind of a waste of time. I had one at the same time I had a Shapton Pro 5K and the Shapton was faster, and left a more slippery edge.

The 8K Kings has a good reputation, but I've never used it. I've never been a fan of the any of the ultra-fine Shaptons, whether GS or Pro. The Naniwa SS 8K and 10K are both good stones, but they wear quickly and tend to gouge way too easily.

You might also think about following your 4K with a loaded strop or two, e.g., 2u boron then 0.5u diamond.

To Polish or Not to Polish: Yes, you'll feel the difference. But, no that special, polished edge won't last very long. Worth it? It mostly depends on how willing you are to keep refreshing the polish.

BDL

[Soen]

Yes the Naniwa's are soft, you just have to be careful and take your time. I personally would recommend against the Chosera if you a beginner because their hardness can cause problems with leveling. Even some minor dishing can be problematic to get rid of even with a diamond plate on the lower grit Chosera's. If you have a Norton flattening stone I think that could prove even more problematic. Plus the SS is quite a bit cheaper.

You have to remember as well that a Gesshin may cost another 28%, plus £9 service charge and a good £15 more at least on postage. So it actually becomes quite a bit more expensive.

[Fred]

Hi all,

I'm looking to expand my japanese waterstone selection with a finer stone. Especially since I fairly recently got a Mac Pro 8 inch chef knife and a Tojiro DP 10 inch chef knife.

I got a KING 1000 that I start off with and then a KING 4000 that I use to polish the edge. I use a Norton flattening stone to flatten.

I would like to get one more stone that's finer than the 4000... so maybe a 6000 or an 8000? Not sure what grit size would make most sense.
I don't care that much about a mirror finish but from what I understand my Japanese knifes could potentially get sharper if I would add another stone to my kit.
I normally strop a bit on newspaper as a final step after deburring on the KING 4000.

Also, a final question - Anyone on the forum from the UK that could recommend a good place to buy stones? It's a bit hard to find here.

Many Thanks,
Aki

The difference between 4000 grit and 6000 grit is meaningless. To get a meaningful difference in blade performance you whould choose 4 or 5 times the coarser grit when moving to the finer grit. On my Edgepro I polish edges with 3000 grit. If, after doing them again on 8000 grit, I thought the edges were cutting better I would be kidding myself. Good stones are hard to find here as well. Most of us buy on-line.

[ksskss]

Well 4k is roughly 4 microns. The jump to 6k is a pretty small jump. For very abrasion resistant knives this may be of use - but not in this instance. 8k (2 micorns) or 10-12k (eg 1.5 microns) might be a good alternative here, so you might consider either a stone or strop formulation in this range. Which one? Well, that's a very interesting topic....

---
Ken

[Benuser]

If you strop on newspaper you've already reached that degree of refinement I would say.