Shapton pro stones

[merlin1]

I notice that Tools for Working Wood has a set of these in 1000, 5000 and 8000 grits for a decent discount over the individual prices.

Is this worthwhile? Will I need an 8000-grit stone for sharpening my soon-to-arrive Misonos, or is the combination of 1000 and 5000 sufficient? Would it be useful to get a coarser stone as well?

Thanks....

-m

[mattrud]

Do you need it? no, the 1000 and 5000 is good enough unless you have a chipped blade. I personally like exploring super fine polishes, reason i have a leather strop. You can get a great polish from the 5000,but with a 8000 you can get a bit nice polish and it will happen faster.
But it is a personal thing a 5000 is really as far as you would need to go, but you may always get the itch to see how far you can take it. And also to many people it is really just to small of a difference (if the difference is detectable) between say 5000 and 8000

But it is up to you if you think you would like to use it and have the ability to go a bit higher on the polish level. But you will be more then happy with just the 1000 and 5000.

[yuzuha]

Jende also has various kits http://hercules.csihosting.com/~jend...e.php?cPath=34 with or without the lapping plate

[Sid Post]

10% off on 3 stones of your choice. There prices are pretty good to start with as well.

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?dept_id=13253

[imwithstupid]

What's the difference between the Shapton Water Stones and the Shapton Pro Stones?

[Fred]

The Pro series are the top of the line. Yuzuha can tell you the differences better than I can. I use Pro series and find that they out cut and still outwear everything else I've ever used, including diamond.

[yuzuha]

[ QUOTE ]
What's the difference between the Shapton Water Stones and the Shapton Pro Stones?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, "Shaputon" (as it is spelled in katakana) makes all kinds of stones....

The M5 series is their cheap (as in price) household series for occasional home use. They are a white ceramic substrate with a layer of abrasive material on top of the ceramic. If you've seen the Global M5 series stones that you can sometimes find in local cutlery shops, they are like those (I have a hunch that Shapton may make Global's M5 stones with the major difference being that the Shaptons come in a plastic case and the Global's have a rubber web footing that goes around the bottom of the stone to keep if from slipping) The surface will craze and become full of tiny little cracks that look like the bottom of a dried up lake, but they don't have any effect on sharpening other than that the metal dust tends to make them stand out (I've never had any problem, but one person here said they had one that the surface crumbled off of).

The M24 were made for professional chefs (and carpenters who like to hunch over their work and apply more pressure on that plane blade than others normally would). They are solid stones glued to a wooden base and come in grits up to 5000 (which is what most people consider sufficient for kitchen cutlery).

The M15 stones were designed for carpenters who use them to polish plane blades and chisels. They are also solid stones and come on a wooden base. They come in grits up to 12,000 (carpenters and cabinet makers need sharper tools for making clean cuts on the end grain, so they are more anal about getting a really sharp, polished edge). Look how thin this Japanese reviewer wore his http://www015.upp.so-net.ne.jp/toish...i/M15-1000.htm (his little rating boxes are for all kinds of things from hardness, grinding power, amount of slurry, if blades tend to stick to it, whether it is best for stainless or carbon steels, grinding power, soaking time, surface deterioration, value and overall quality.... (he rates this one as hard, lots of slurry, high grinding power, short soak, equally good on carbon or stainless, low stick, no deterioration, high value, excellent quality)

The Lr250 are huge ceramic fired stones 10-7/8" x 4" x 1" that come in grits up to 5000. I would imagine knife and tool makers would like these since they do a lot of sharpening and having a huge stone like that helps.

The hippo (or KABADO) stones are like the Lr250 but are on a base with a pin on the bottom that fits into this big stone holder. They come in the same grits as the Lr250 but there is also a 12,000 grit in the hippo series. (here's one showing a 5k stone and base http://www.shapton.co.jp/images/kabado/kabado.s1.jpg ) Here's a place that sells Shapton stones in Japan... you can get an idea of the relative prices... the hippo stones are at the bottom of the page http://homepage1.nifty.com/shincoo/s-0182a.html (get a load of what they pay for a 10x4 DMT duolap! 25,200 yen... about $250... and I thought $130 at some places in the U.S. was bad! Now I don't feel so bad paying more than they do for waterstones ^-^)

The kuromaku series is what we call the "pro" stones. They are thinner than the rest 8-1/4" x 2-3/4" x 5/8" and are made of ceramic abrasives (probably chrome oxide and aluminum oxide) in a resin binder (plastic of some sort). They contain a slightly higher percentage of abrasive than their other stones and resin bonded abrasives can actually cut faster than regular bonded abrasives since they can adjust the wear of the binder to match the wear of the abrasive and get a smoother finish to boot (due to the very slight flexibility of the binder relative to ceramic or metal). These do not make a slurry like their other stones (or most any stone from other makers, including natural stones) do (and are designed to use without a slurry or nagura), and do not absorb water (soaking them like other stones will soften the surface of the resin and make them "fuzzy" so they don't cut well, though this can be fixed by lapping or scrubbing with a nagura). They are also made mainly for carpenters, but also do a pretty good job on knives. One thing about them though... they come in that handy box that can be used as a stand, but when you've lapped them down to where they are starting to get really thin, you should probably glue them to a board (the plastic case is not as stiff as wood and the stone could snap in half before you use it up... you can use them 'til they are just a colored smudge if you stick them on a hunk of wood like their other stones)

[imwithstupid]

Thanks for the information - was exactly what I was looking for. Being a beginner at sharpening, would it be worth it to just buy a set of Shapton Pro stones (1000, 5000), or should I start by buying a cheaper stone for around $30 to practice on with cheapo knives? Dont want to mess up the stones if I do not really know exactly what I'm doing yet.

[mattrud]

Go for the shaptons if you can get them. You really wont gauge themor anything unless you act really really really carelessand start hitting it with a knife [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Just take your time and practice.

[Octaveman]

It doesn't make sense to buy cheaper stones to practice on. It should be the other way around...use cheapo knives to practice on. $30 will not buy you a 1k and a 5k. I bought the same set you're considering (1k, 5k and 8k) and I love them and I use all three. Invest in the pro series.

Bob