Why is there so much neg about Shun Pro?

[thombrogan]

Oh no! What about the soul of a knife?

That's added by the OEM before the reseller finishes the knife.

[akilia]

You don't consider that no japanese chefs use shun yanagis as evidence against it. You value your comprehension of knives over this? I sure don't value mine as highly.

Sorry, bob13bob, my mistake. I meant to say "so dismissive of my reasons for asking these questions".

I value your comments, and those who were really putting forward a view about the question (as opposed to an uncalled-for view about myself). and only wanted to hear something with evidence rather than argument by assertion. This thread has been brimming with both, and there is nothing wrong with that, I just personally wanted to hear more reasoning than "eek horrible" for example.

[akilia]

Akilia,
In light of your experiences with double bevel edges, it's certainly much clearer as to why there would be confusion. It has been a lively and interesting thread, to be sure.

May I offer "Shunagiba" as a new moniker for this style?

I think most of the folks here (myself included) would probably adhere to a very narrow purist's definition of what constitutes a single bevel edge, but it's quite informative to hear that there is precedent for another approach which might also be considered authentic, although I am hard pressed to consider this a "correct or proper" single bevel edge. I imagine that your suspicions regarding the reasoning behind these edges is quite correct. In fact, I'm sure the reasons why these were applied may not be terribly different from why they were applied to the Shun blades.

I would like to reiterate that I was and am very pleased with the performance of my Shun (post blade modification). Although not as authentic in design and constructed of a modern steel, I never felt it was a bad blade. It is simply a hybrid possessed of certain construction details that weren't made clear to me, despite my research. As I mentioned, after the modification, although performance was markedly better, I felt the edge was a bit too delicate, so I applied a nearly imperceptible microbevel which very effectively addressed my concerns. Even with this minor alteration it cut through fish after fish without issue. Would I choose it again if I knew what lay in wait for me? Not likely, but if the price were sufficiently low, under the right circumstances I might be willing to take one on again.

Mike, I think if one consults current paper literature [er, wozzat? - Ed.] about buying J knives, (eg Hiromitsu Nazaki 2009), the unfinished edge with protective partly projecting back bevel is a recognised authentic retail item that one would be well advised to check up on prior to purchase. You've helped me a great deal!

As promised Mike, here's the Q&A between myself and Shun. I suspect, as we said earlier, the ulterior motive quoted by Shun is a bit of spin, dodging inferences that US Customers could eg be cack-handed with single-bevel readily chippable knives.

From............: <akilia>

This is a technical question about the finished edge on Shun Pro Yanagiba knife sold outside Japan.
Many traditional knives from Japan require a final honba-tzuke grind including ura-oshi (flattening the back) to remove a projecting back bevel and create the final finished edge. I am told that the Yanagi is sold with a back bevel, making it a double bevel knife contrary to the company promotional information which states singel bevel.
Please would you kindly state definitively
1. whether the Shun Pro Kanagi knife is sold with a back bevel, and if this is intended to be removed by Honba-Tzuke and Ura-oshi to complete the final singel bevel edge?
2. Would this have the appearance of a double bevel until it is ground by ura-oshi? Is there a sales option to complete honba-tsuke for some customers (eg in Japan, like Misono and Global knives?)

---------
Dear <akilia>

Thank you for your inquiry. Our knives do have the “honba-tzuke” grind; however we leave the “ura-oshi” to the customer. This does mean that there is an acute bevel on the back of the blade. Knowing our American customers’ sensibilities for aesthetics, we chose not to do the ura oshi because it alters the appearance of the back of the blade in a way a lot of American users would think of as, “unattractive.”

I hope this information helps. If you have further questions, please don’t hesitate to ask.

Very truly yours,

Dominique Dobson
Marketing Coordinator, Housewares Division--KAI USA, Ltd.
www.shuncutlery.com

[kcma]

That's retarded. Sorry. It's not just aesthetic. It's functional.

Like I said. Just a marketing gimick sold to ppl who don't use it.

[miles]

Mike, I think if one consults current paper literature [er, wozzat? - Ed.] about buying J knives, (eg Hiromitsu Nazaki 2009), the unfinished edge with protective partly projecting back bevel is a recognised authentic retail item that one would be well advised to check up on prior to purchase. You've helped me a great deal!

As promised Mike, here's the Q&A between myself and Shun. I suspect, as we said earlier, the ulterior motive quoted by Shun is a bit of spin, dodging inferences that US Customers could eg be cack-handed with single-bevel readily chippable knives.

From............: <akilia>

This is a technical question about the finished edge on Shun Pro Yanagiba knife sold outside Japan.
Many traditional knives from Japan require a final honba-tzuke grind including ura-oshi (flattening the back) to remove a projecting back bevel and create the final finished edge. I am told that the Yanagi is sold with a back bevel, making it a double bevel knife contrary to the company promotional information which states singel bevel.
Please would you kindly state definitively
1. whether the Shun Pro Kanagi knife is sold with a back bevel, and if this is intended to be removed by Honba-Tzuke and Ura-oshi to complete the final singel bevel edge?
2. Would this have the appearance of a double bevel until it is ground by ura-oshi? Is there a sales option to complete honba-tsuke for some customers (eg in Japan, like Misono and Global knives?)

---------
Dear <akilia>

Thank you for your inquiry. Our knives do have the “honba-tzuke” grind; however we leave the “ura-oshi” to the customer. This does mean that there is an acute bevel on the back of the blade. Knowing our American customers’ sensibilities for aesthetics, we chose not to do the ura oshi because it alters the appearance of the back of the blade in a way a lot of American users would think of as, “unattractive.”

I hope this information helps. If you have further questions, please don’t hesitate to ask.

Very truly yours,

Dominique Dobson
Marketing Coordinator, Housewares Division--KAI USA, Ltd.
www.shuncutlery.com

"unattractive"????

Really????????

[akilia]

Yeah, you know, "would be a nice-looker if the backside wasn't so flat".

[Messerfreak]

Hi Aki,

I have the exact Shun Pro Yanagiba 300mm you are describing and recently sent it to the factory to be resharpened. They put a double micro bevel on the front and back edge like in your picture. It is a little annoying because I spent 4 days flattening the blade road down and flattened the back of the blade before sending it to them.

But all in all the knife cut sashimi very well and I don't have to worry about it compare to the honyakis and kasumis that I have.

This is the knife I use when friends are around in case they pick it up and use it. Since the factory has a lifetime warranty I don't worry about a friend damaging it. Worst case I have to spend another 3 days getting rid of the micro bevel.

John

[Messerfreak]

I also have a 270 mm version of the Shun Pro yanagiba and the micro bevel on this one is less than .5 mm versus almost a 1 mm micro bevel that I get back from the factory on my 300mm shun Pro Yanagiba. The 270 is also lighter than a traditional japanese made, 6.1 oz vs 7.1 oz.

John

[roo]

What I like about Shun is that they are carried by Amazon. I paid $36 for a 4" paring that normally sells for $65. I got a similar deal on a Santoku.

[Tippet]

Hey I've got it...all you guys who say Shun sucks, why don't you send you Shun knives to Akilla?
( lol problem solved, you're welcome.)

I just have to weigh in on this. lol it sure grew into a good long read!

I've often wondered the same thing, Akilla. I like Shun. My dear mother gave me some of hers a while back, she has more kitchen knives than anyone I know. I got a santoku, a nakiri, a sandwich, and a little parer. I like 'em. They're nice looking and easy to keep sharp. What's not to like?

I wouldn't have bought them, though. Not that I don't like Shun, I do like Shun. But there are other knives I'd buy first.

I think my next kitchen knives will be small and large debas. After that it's probably yaniga-ba time. I'm more likely to go with traditional designs than anything in the Shun line-up.