The realities of buying and selling on line

[Fred]

While it may come as a surprise to some, there is risk in buying and selling personal items on line. People can and do become victimized by dishonesty. Because people are members of our community doesn't make them automatically honest nor does it make them automatically your friend. In fact there are people who make full time or part time livings by preying on forum communities.

We've had a couple of cases of fraud on this forum recently. My natural reaction is to close it down. Since two out of hundreds isn't an epidemic, I let it stay. But understand that trading with members of the community is done at your risk. I will not get involved in any trading that goes on here. I'm happy to ban the frauds but I can't get your money or your item back to you.

My advice is to do your buying from established and reputable on-online retailers. There are hundreds of thousands of them. Another option is Ebay which has fairly bomb proof buyer protection policies. The prevalent distribution system in the U.S. provides no seller protection. I should know. I make my living selling on the internet. Fraud is not uncommon. I suffer about $20,000 per year personally in losses to fraud and that is a tiny fraction of the attempts to defraud me. After a dozen years of selling on the internet we know all the tricks and are very good at spotting fraud. Nevertheless, we feel it fairly often.

If you sell something you are wide open to fraud. So understand that a seller should never, ever ship anything to a buyer without being fully paid. Do not ship your item on promises or credit. Do not do it. Buyers have protection. Sellers do not. Understand that clearly.

Finally, understand that, as a buyer, your protection comes in the form of the ability to do chargebacks on your credit card. That means you should do your on-line buying with debit or credit card or through one of the on-line payment services like Paypal or Moneybookers with an account backed by a credit card.

If we continue to encounter fraud on the trading post forum, I will close it as a protection to the community. it is supposed to be a service to the community.

[aleck]

I've bought and sold a few items here and on KF, here are a few rules that I try to follow. Some of them are no brainers.

- You obviously have a higher chance of getting scammed by a new user. If somebody joins a forum and a few days later offers a Hattori KD for sale, I would avoid this offer. Look for the seller's history of postings, especially the history of buying/selling.

- If you are selling, Paypal is the preferred method of payment here. Don't go for money order offers in order to "save on fees". Ship only to confirmed PayPal addresses. Even better, ask the buyer for an address on the forum and match it with the PayPal address. Use PayPal's built in shipping label printer.

- As Fred pointed, use credit card with PayPal. Debit cards are not as bullet proof when it comes to getting your money back. PayPal by itself has fewer protections, so don't use the balance or bank transfer options for payment.

- Using shipping options with delivery notification, e.g. USPS Priority. It is not much more expensive than regular mail, but will give you more proof for disputes.

[gle1952]

+ 1 on the above posts with the following exception.
While I can agree the length of membership as possibly being a good indicator, be carefull not to place too much emphasis on the number of postings. I suspect like a talk show you will find many times the number of listeners (readers) as contributers. While there are many expert opinions and information to be had here, a lot of us are just reading, learning, and maybe buying that knife we otherwise may not even know about. By the way thank all of you people for sharing your knowledge.

[Octaveman]

gle1952, the risk to the seller is very low for selling a knife to a newbie with a low post count because the seller still has the knife if the payment isn't made. There is more risk to the BUYER if there is an offer to sell by someone with very few posts. I've even seen members making their first post trying to sell a knife. I believe that is what aleck was saying.

I personally wouldn't have any issues selling to a new forum member. I would not BUY from a new member with a low post count though. The rules for using the For Sale section are clear that they must be a participating member in good standing or their post will not be approved. Still, no gaurantee of legitimacy but it was something that was put into place a long time ago.

[gle1952]

Understood and agreed

[jmbullman]

is there a list of people who have commited fraud on some of our honorable members or has fred already banned them? just curious. james

[Octaveman]

No list that I'm aware of. They would've been banned and not present on the website anyway.

[Hh227]

Just buy from reputable online stores! There's always going to be dishonesty in forums etc.

[anvlts]

Well, there are incidences of dishonesty on the forum, but for the most part, buying and selling on the forums is relatively safe. Use common sense, outlined in many posts here, and you will be fine.

[robbiebobbie]

I have bought several knives on here and I am not a heavy poster. I have never had any issues, the knifes have always shown up in good order and I pay up front. Being from canada, I take on some responsibility when it comes to shipping. Stuff happens, not so far but it can. What am I going to do about it, not much.

I am not sure what thi issue is about shipping to canada, but some people need to get over it. If you want to sell, my money is as good as anyones.