Sharpness and Fish-Cutting

[ChrisLehrer]

Been away for a bit, and among other things I've read Bourdain's new book Medium Raw. It's OK, but spotty. I mention it because there is a wonderful chapter that does a close profile of the guy who does almost all of the fish-cutting at Le Bernardin. Scary stuff.

He uses some rather odd knives that he happens to like, which is sort of interesting.

But I also noticed that for most basic cutting, i.e. filleting of roundfish, he makes a point that your knife shouldn't be too sharp. If it's too sharp, he says, it'll go right through bone at times when you want to feel and stay on the surface of the bones.

This reminded me of Brandon saying that he's found his debas should be sharpened to no more than 1k or 2k. Very sharp, yes, but also a little bit toothy and coarse. I wonder whether the point is the same: the slight toothiness makes it possible to feel, very subtly, the bone structure as you run across it, where a much smoother knife would simply pass through and leave bones where you don't want them.

Thoughts?

But you pros should really read this profile, in your off hours. It's amazing. The thing with salmon pinbones is frightening.

[kcma]

Cutting through bone isn't an issue no matter how sharp your knives are. I stop sharpening my deba around 1-3k range. I don't think your knives can be too sharp. But beyond 2-3k on deba isn't practical.

[kml]

What was frightening about the salmon pin bones?

cheers
ken

[NJGaijin]

I like to run my deba(s) up to 3k, but with a convex edge grind. Nice and sharp at the edge but with a little radius to help it ride along the bones.

[Alchemist]

This reminds me of some of the ideas conveyed on this thread regarding so called "aggressive edges". It makes a lot of sense to be able to "feel" what is going on under the blade as it's riding along. But it also seems that for some food types a very refined edge is far better.

[blwchef]

One of the reasons I keep my debas in the 800-2500 range is that a little tooth help get through thick skin easier. As far as riding the bones it's all about technique. My 800 grit edge will shave through bones as easily as my 10,000 grit edge. The only difference is that the 10,000 will likely not survive as long when coming in contact with bones. I cut some black cod the other day with just an 800 edge and it glide through everything effortlessly. Some of the ribs got shaved and I had to lean them up afterward. I'm a little rusty, not butcher as much as I used to. Mostly just sushi bar work now.

[kcma]

I stop at bester 700 on deba from time to time

[Tippet]

I am in the "can't be too sharp" camp. AFAIK, the scariest thing about salmon pin bones is how many get left in a "boneless" fillet. If you don't take the time to find them and pull them all out (I use pliers) a guest could be injured trying to swallow bone. The good news is, it's easy to find them all and yank them out. Also, they're not super-hard and rumour has it that if you bake the fish long enough any bones left in there will get soft enough to not be noticed.

[blwchef]

Also, they're not super-hard and rumour has it that if you bake the fish long enough any bones left in there will get soft enough to not be noticed.

LOL, This is soooo not true. I love it when fish mongers tell people that trout bones will just melt once you cook them.

[phageghost]

On the other hand, deep-fried aji bones are crispy and delicious.