Upgrade and new knife time

[Citizen_Snips]

Hey all,

ive been away for a while getting married, going on a honeymoon to napa valley (yes it was everything i wanted it to be), and working 60 hours a week so haven't been near my computer much but its good to see everyone again.

so i have been using my hiromoto AS and liking it a lot but i have just started a new job at a place where we do a lot more with whole fish as opposed to just getting in sides at the previous dump i worked plus i have an experienced mentor who has great knife skills and is the only other person i will be working with in our part of this kitchen. i am looking to upgrade and get some new cutlery. like i said the hiromoto and shun yanagi did fine before but i need some new tools. my wife is also a chef and can be donated to (because she got jealous when she saw how sharp my j-knives were) so i am thinking of starting new.

im in the market for a wa-gyoto, deba, and yanagi. im pretty sure im gonna go with the masamoto kk series for the yanagi and deba just because i dont wanna spend too much on my first set real set of single bevels (plus im broke from the french laundry) but also dont want to get some real garbage that will just become beater knives in a drawer at work in the next 6 months. as far as the gyoto, ive been researching this topic here and at KF and have come up with a few ideas. Aritsugu a type, Tadatsuna, and grand chef seem to have great things to be said about them. i also wouldn't mind keeping the set all masamoto. i have somewhat decent sharpening skills but only own 1k and 6k stones and really dont want to get into buying any other stones until i have my knives picked out and can get the best stones for the set.

i was just hoping i could get some pro's and con's for the wa-gyotos (or any new ideas) as well as any good information about them along with suggestions or confirmations about the single beveled choices.

below is a pic of my current cutlery minus a misono honesuki and petty. ill keep the misono knives but everything else will probably be donated to my wife.

http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/a...smcgee/008.jpg

[Seb]

As far as wa-gyutos go, the Devin Thomas ITK is getting all the Buzz, the Konosuke HD a little bit too, and the Suisin Inox Honyaki is making a comeback.

[parmenides]

If you dont want to get a coarser stone Aritsugu A might be not the best choice.

[thombrogan]

If you dont want to get a coarser stone Aritsugu A might be not the best choice.

Superb understatement. A belt grinder with two fresh 80 grit belts (or coarser) is a great start for that badboy.

[jmbullman]

i know this isnt a answer to your question, but a question for you, how have your shun's held up and how long have you had them. just curious i have 4 of them and wondering on their longetivity. (theyll just be for home use, no major abuse). thanks, sorry i couldnt answer your question i would be lying to you if i answered it.

[Citizen_Snips]

As far as wa-gyutos go, the Devin Thomas ITK is getting all the Buzz, the Konosuke HD a little bit too, and the Suisin Inox Honyaki is making a comeback.

ya i have also considered the suisin inox but it is just a bit too pricey, along with the devin thomas. maybe i just need to save a few months more

[Citizen_Snips]

i know this isnt a answer to your question, but a question for you, how have your shun's held up and how long have you had them. just curious i have 4 of them and wondering on their longetivity. (theyll just be for home use, no major abuse). thanks, sorry i couldnt answer your question i would be lying to you if i answered it.

ive also had the wide santoku, and the 10' chef knife in the shun classic. they do okay. some people swear by them but i just wasn't that impressed. i kept the bread knife because my wife likes it for home use and i kept the paring knife because, well, its just a paring knife. the yanagi is what it is. it holds its edge okay but it is not a great knife by any means. it was just all i could afford (i got it from a buddy for 50 bucks).

they stand up for home use if you take care of them but in a professional kitchen there is money spent elsewhere that is invaluable

[boar_d_laze]

KK is a great choice for a working yanagi and deba. You can spend more on prestige, but you're not going to get a significantly better knife.

Your wa-gyuto choices are interesting and well thought out.

Aritsugu translates as "Masamoto for the budget minded." The difference between the two brands is something like the difference between Corvette and Porsche.

The Aritsugu A is a major DIY project to get it ready to go, as you're already well aware. It's unalterably right-handed, which you may not have thought of. After you've got the knife thinned -- however you choose to do that -- As aren't particularly difficult to sharpen or keep sharp. Their edges wear extremely well. Which is to say they barely wear at all. That along with a good profile (not as good as a Masamoto's) is the essence of their charm. You might also want to think about a Yoshikane. Still a chore but not quite so much to get going; and all the joys of HSS.

If you want a knife like a Tadatsuna Inox, there isn't much competition. But that one knife is damn near a clone. Like the Tad, the Suisun, is a great knife. Even though they use different alloys the edge taking and holding charcteristics are identical -- maybe that goes to show just how big a part geometry plays. The big difference is the engraving/stamping. Some people feel the Suisun looks nicer because the engraving is very nicely done. The Tad is hand stamped, kanji character by kanji character and their line and spacing reflect the inexactness of the human hand and eye. Suisusn's saya is a little nicer. Otherwise, not much to choose between until you limber up the credit card.

You either want a super-thin knife or you don't. Tad's cheaper.

The Tadatsuna white steel gyuto is not only the same price as the Inox and cheaper than the Suisuin but gets sharper than either. You want a thin knife and can live with carbon, Tad Shiroko and forget the rest.

KC's been fooling around with a Grand Cheff for awhile. What I'm getting from him is that the edge doesn't hold up as well as he'd like. When KC talks, people listen. On the other hand, he sharpens to a chisel edge, you don't exepct a chisel edged gyuto not to wave a little considering the banging it takes. Grand Cheffs get very sharp without too much difficulty -- even at a durable 70/30. Worth noting that he did not piss, moan, kvetch and/or schrai about his stainless Tad's edge holding.

Devin Thomas: If you don't need a knife for a looooong time, this may be the one. In the meantime, you can make do with your board scraper.

Masamoto KS -- Perfect, perfect, perfect. Ain't nothin' like a Masamoto. I mean, do you want are you willing to settle for a Porsche Turbo? Or, do you really think there's something better?

BDL

[Citizen_Snips]

BDL- thanks for all the very very useful information. this is exactly what i need to make my choice. im glad you could see that i didn't want people to make my decision, just wanted as much information about the choices i had narrowed down.


im not really looking for a project so i guess the aritsugu is out. i dont really have the equipment to thin something out that much and dont have like 20 hours to spend on my stone unless anyone has good ideas for thinning out. i dont mind the project if its not that long and shows something spectacular in return. i guess ive still got some decisions to make for the wa-gyoto.

thanks again BDL

-CS

[Seb]

There are alternatives to the Suisin and the Tad in the world of thin wa-gyutos:

(I assume you're only considering stainless)

1. JCK Kagayaki VG-10

2. Sakai Takayuki Grand Cheff Wa

3. Ashi Hamono

4. Sakai Yusuke Swedish Stainless

5. Yoshihiro

2,3 and 4 are Swedish stainless at 58-59. 1 and 5 are VG-10 at 59-60. They're all softer than the Tad and Suisin, hence the lower price point.